6 ms·

Here's the summary (mixed with observations from Munro and past Tesla presentations): - Costs money: the physical sensors (a dozen of them), wiring it up, asse

by oxplot 4y ago

Here's the summary (mixed with observations from Munro and past Tesla presentations): - Costs money: the physical sensors (a dozen of them), wiring it up, assembling it, maintain inventory, code it, etc. - Time spent on maintaining, improving software stack for the non-vision sensors as well as efforts needed to fuse the data with vision, takes away from focusing on vision alone. It also holds back vision in relevant areas. - Existing non-vision sensors used by Tesla are orders of magnitude lower fidelity than vision. It has historically (as the case with radar) led to vision essentially having to overriding radar because vision just performed much better (see AI day 2021). My take: As with any new tech, it likely sucks at the start (think HDD and SSDs, and how a mechanical thing with lots of moving parts was way more reliable than SSDs at the start). However, by essentially moving past the local maxima, you get to innovate better, faster in the future. In case of ultrasonic sensors, they are for low speed cases anyway and most people are fine without them. Majority of fatalities and injuries happen at higher speeds.

rootusrootus 4y ago
That's great for them. But when I'm shopping for a car, I get to choose between a manufacturer that installs the extra sensors and seems to be able to get them to work, and Tesla. Used to be that Tesla was blazing a trail and if you wanted a good EV, that was what you got. Now, if you want the best EV, it's usually not going to be a Tesla. And I don't see that they're making any decisions that will regain them that title. The incumbent manufacturers are quickly proceeding to eat their lunch, just like many of us predicted would happen. Turns out the hard part of making a successful car isn't the drivetrain.
- oxplot 4y ago
  > Now, if you want the best EV, it's usually not going to be a Tesla. Would love to hear what you consider "good" and what specific EV ticks the most good features that a Tesla Model 3 doesn't.
  - lnsru 4y ago
    360 degree camera on BMW i4. Overall build quality too.
    - oxplot 4y ago
      I don't know if you're addressing what makes a good "EV" or just listing some features you personally care about. If the former, then 360 degree camera and build quality has little to do with an EV. Tesla is a young company and build quality has dramatically improved over the years (see Munro) and will continue to do so. Tesla has close to 360 camera coverage, it just hasn't added it in software. All it takes is a software update on existing hardware. If they haven't done it yet, it probably means they have other priorities at the moment. Some EV specific advantages of Tesla over competition: - Range: Teslas continue to lead in range, as result of best aerodynamics, best drive train efficiency and vertically integrated design (see Munro - highly integrated component). - Charging infrastructure: largest available and most reliable (see MKBHD for e.g.). - Regular software updates improving everything from range, to charge planning (recently added much better estimate based on wind direction, inclination, tyre pressure, weather, etc) to safety, etc. - and most important of all: Availability and production volume. Best EV in the world isn't worth anything if you can't buy it. If you look forward and see what Tesla is doing with its manufacturing innovations, it should become clear that things like in-house battery production, single front and rear casting among numerous other things has already secured their top position for sometime to come.
      - lnsru 4y ago
        Maybe in US. Tesla has nothing to throw against some serious cars like Mercedes EQS or EQS SUV. Hyundai is also catching up. Charging infrastructure isn’t an issue in Europe anymore and is getting better and better every year. Tesla supercharger for free at the beginning was a big deal. That’s why I am looking for used model X from 2017 right now. 5000€ in free electricity a year is a nice advantage. I also have open order for model Y performance from Berlin factory. Sorry, the lead time shitshow is similar to all others. Every month my order is being delayed by 2 months for months. I have only one additional option ordered - black color. Last time I checked delivery time was updated to “TBD”. Lol. Edit: this year generous funding for new electric vehicles in Germany is about to end, that’s why the last months of 2022 are so chaotic regarding lead times.

by oxplot 4y ago

rootusrootus 4y ago

That's great for them. But when I'm shopping for a car, I get to choose between a manufacturer that installs the extra sensors and seems to be able to get them to work, and Tesla. Used to be that Tesla was blazing a trail and if you wanted a good EV, that was what you got. Now, if you want the best EV, it's usually not going to be a Tesla. And I don't see that they're making any decisions that will regain them that title. The incumbent manufacturers are quickly proceeding to eat their lunch, just like many of us predicted would happen. Turns out the hard part of making a successful car isn't the drivetrain.

oxplot 4y ago
> Now, if you want the best EV, it's usually not going to be a Tesla. Would love to hear what you consider "good" and what specific EV ticks the most good features that a Tesla Model 3 doesn't.
- lnsru 4y ago
  360 degree camera on BMW i4. Overall build quality too.
  - oxplot 4y ago
    I don't know if you're addressing what makes a good "EV" or just listing some features you personally care about. If the former, then 360 degree camera and build quality has little to do with an EV. Tesla is a young company and build quality has dramatically improved over the years (see Munro) and will continue to do so. Tesla has close to 360 camera coverage, it just hasn't added it in software. All it takes is a software update on existing hardware. If they haven't done it yet, it probably means they have other priorities at the moment. Some EV specific advantages of Tesla over competition: - Range: Teslas continue to lead in range, as result of best aerodynamics, best drive train efficiency and vertically integrated design (see Munro - highly integrated component). - Charging infrastructure: largest available and most reliable (see MKBHD for e.g.). - Regular software updates improving everything from range, to charge planning (recently added much better estimate based on wind direction, inclination, tyre pressure, weather, etc) to safety, etc. - and most important of all: Availability and production volume. Best EV in the world isn't worth anything if you can't buy it. If you look forward and see what Tesla is doing with its manufacturing innovations, it should become clear that things like in-house battery production, single front and rear casting among numerous other things has already secured their top position for sometime to come.
    - lnsru 4y ago
      Maybe in US. Tesla has nothing to throw against some serious cars like Mercedes EQS or EQS SUV. Hyundai is also catching up. Charging infrastructure isn’t an issue in Europe anymore and is getting better and better every year. Tesla supercharger for free at the beginning was a big deal. That’s why I am looking for used model X from 2017 right now. 5000€ in free electricity a year is a nice advantage. I also have open order for model Y performance from Berlin factory. Sorry, the lead time shitshow is similar to all others. Every month my order is being delayed by 2 months for months. I have only one additional option ordered - black color. Last time I checked delivery time was updated to “TBD”. Lol. Edit: this year generous funding for new electric vehicles in Germany is about to end, that’s why the last months of 2022 are so chaotic regarding lead times.