8 ms·

You can be a part of a large or small instance and your consumption/conversation is not limited to users on that instance. You can follow people from other inst

by bkuehl 4y ago

You can be a part of a large or small instance and your consumption/conversation is not limited to users on that instance. You can follow people from other instances as well as scroll through a timeline that is posts/toots from across the fediverse (not just your local instance)

augustuspolius 4y ago
Got it. Does it make any difference where I register first? E.g. if that instance disappears overnight, will I be able to recover my account or not? I understand that I can access posts from all instances in the instance I use, but not sure how account handling/ownership works.
- cmrdporcupine 4y ago
  There are migration tools to move your followers and your followings between nodes. But no way to move your posts. And so, yes, your identity partially/kind-of doesn't move. But mostly sort of does? At first this bugged me, but then it was pointed out that if you could just move your posts you could also potentially violate the moderation rules of the host you were moving to. So it makes some sense.
  - augustuspolius 4y ago
    Thanks. I am more worried about the identity than the posts. If my identity belongs to the host, then in that sense this is no better than a centralized Twitter. Just theoretically speaking (I have not been banned from anything ever), if a mastodon.art user is banned from mastodon.art - everyone who followed them will have to find them on another instance and subscribe again? If exporting data is a process that depends on the host instance, when they ban you - that's it, your identity is not recoverable.
    - cmrdporcupine 4y ago
      The migration tool automatically moves your followers. It's a bit janky, it took an hour or two for it do its thing for me (there must be some batch component, I dunno). I don't know how it works between banned instances, or what your options are for when a server goes down fully. But all the of the follower/following data is available via CSV export any time, too. And there's obviously an open API as well. And honestly, you could also just run your own server if you're that concerned.
      - rootusrootus 4y ago
        How are permissions managed so that you can change your followers configuration to point at your new account if you move, but otherwise not allow anybody else to pull that same stunt against your wishes?
        jeena 4y ago
        On your old account you have to start the process.
    - ceejayoz 4y ago
      > if a mastodon.art user is banned from mastodon.art - everyone who followed them will have to find them on another instance and subscribe again? To be fair, that's an improvement over, say, Twitter, where they'd just be gone.
      - augustuspolius 4y ago
        I agree. The idealist in me wants all of these aspects to be completely independent from the host I choose to use. But realistically I am not that worried about losing data, the social graph is far more valuable. Even if I have 100 followers, I would still really want to preserve their connection to me if I am banned. I understand that I can do this by hosting my own instance - that's a good enough solution (for me).
      - rootusrootus 4y ago
        IMO the bigger issue isn't getting banned, it seems the more likely scenario is having the operator of the server decide for whatever reason to shut it down. This isn't likely to happen with Twitter.
        _emacsomancer_ 4y ago
        It's perhaps less likely for Twitter than any one given Fediverse server/Mastodon instance. But the impact on the whole ecosystem is very different too. A single Fediverse instance shutting down could be annoying/sad, but it would only affect a subset of users, and those users could still, if need be, create a new account on another instance. Twitter shutting down closes everything for everyone.
        WorldMaker 4y ago
        Relatedly, Twitter isn't going to throw a bake sale to try to stop from shutting down, it will get devoured as quickly as it files Chapter 7 or Chapter 11 and debt holders descend like vultures. Most Mastodon instances are community run, and when they hit some rough straits in paying for their hosting some of them will have a (metaphorical) bake sale encouraging users to contribute to the hosting fund Patreon or will ask around if someone wants to take over the admin hot seat for a while. For those concerned about the longevity of specific instances that's generally the answer: ask the community how the admin pays for things, look for their Patreon, consider chipping in what you can each month.
    - khimaros 4y ago
      you may be interested in something like nostr, nomadnet, iris, or ssb. these all have decentralized identities baked in.
  - Dylan16807 4y ago
    > At first this bugged me, but then it was pointed out that if you could just move your posts you could also potentially violate the moderation rules of the host you were moving to. So it makes some sense. So moderate it the same as if you reposted everything? I don't understand.
- bkuehl 4y ago
  To start, you should choose an instance that had been around for a while and isn't too small. Instances do shutdown occasionally but the admin(s) will give you plenty of time to migrate to a new instance. Mastodon has built-in tools to migrate your whole account (and content) to another instance if needed. I'm currently having to do that because a large well-established instance (mastodon.technology) is shutting down the end of the year.
  - SifJar 4y ago
    > but the admin(s) will give you plenty of time to migrate to a new instance that seems like a big assumption - if I'm running an instance, what's to stop me pulling the plug with zero notice?
- davidw 4y ago
  This seems like a big weak point. I went to check it out just now and it's like "pick a server" and... I don't know, which one is best? Can I change later? Seems confusing, pass for now.
  - sigmar 4y ago
    It's federated. Much like email. You can follow people on other servers and it pulls their feed. If you want to switch servers, you just make a new account (and just like email you'll need to tell your followers where you are going)
    - rootusrootus 4y ago
      > It's federated. Much like email. How feasible is it to have a username at a custom domain? In case the server you sign up on goes out of service. Do you have to set up your own instance in order to do that? Is there a barrier from setting up a new instance and then participating immediately in the wider federated network?
      - augustuspolius 4y ago
        I was just investigating this. You can run your own Mastodon instance on your custom domain (e.g. masto.host), but due to how Mastodon federation works, your instance will 1. host all your content 2. handle a ton of requests when people interact with you or your content: follow, favorite, boost, etc. Also every time a user follows you from an instance not federated with your instance it's a whole complicated process because federation has to be established between your instance and their instance (and, I think, every instance that they follow users from). So if I understand your question correctly: there is no way to separate your identity from your content. If you want to own your identity you will need to self-host. I am realizing now that the solution to these concerns is likely going to emerge from matrix.org, not Mastodon.
        cmrdporcupine 4y ago
        Seems like there must be some sort of possibility for someone to create some sort of "lightweight hosting" option here. Where you get your own bespoke "host" where you own all the data and identity, etc. but it is actually physically managed on someone else's infra (something higher level than a vhost). Pay a small fee, get a subdomain, get your own masto node, get your own data, all encrypted, but someone else handles all the legwork of setting it up, federating it, etc.
- CodeArtisan 4y ago
  >Does it make any difference where I register first? Yes; Each instance has its own posting rules and an instance may suspend (block) another instance for different reasons. Mastodon.social has suspended quite a few instances, for example. Always read the about page of the instance before registering. https://mastodon.social/about https://mastodon.social/about

by bkuehl 4y ago

augustuspolius 4y ago

Got it. Does it make any difference where I register first? E.g. if that instance disappears overnight, will I be able to recover my account or not? I understand that I can access posts from all instances in the instance I use, but not sure how account handling/ownership works.

cmrdporcupine 4y ago
There are migration tools to move your followers and your followings between nodes. But no way to move your posts. And so, yes, your identity partially/kind-of doesn't move. But mostly sort of does? At first this bugged me, but then it was pointed out that if you could just move your posts you could also potentially violate the moderation rules of the host you were moving to. So it makes some sense.
- augustuspolius 4y ago
  Thanks. I am more worried about the identity than the posts. If my identity belongs to the host, then in that sense this is no better than a centralized Twitter. Just theoretically speaking (I have not been banned from anything ever), if a mastodon.art user is banned from mastodon.art - everyone who followed them will have to find them on another instance and subscribe again? If exporting data is a process that depends on the host instance, when they ban you - that's it, your identity is not recoverable.
  - cmrdporcupine 4y ago
    The migration tool automatically moves your followers. It's a bit janky, it took an hour or two for it do its thing for me (there must be some batch component, I dunno). I don't know how it works between banned instances, or what your options are for when a server goes down fully. But all the of the follower/following data is available via CSV export any time, too. And there's obviously an open API as well. And honestly, you could also just run your own server if you're that concerned.
    - rootusrootus 4y ago
      How are permissions managed so that you can change your followers configuration to point at your new account if you move, but otherwise not allow anybody else to pull that same stunt against your wishes?
      - jeena 4y ago
        On your old account you have to start the process.
  - ceejayoz 4y ago
    > if a mastodon.art user is banned from mastodon.art - everyone who followed them will have to find them on another instance and subscribe again? To be fair, that's an improvement over, say, Twitter, where they'd just be gone.
    - augustuspolius 4y ago
      I agree. The idealist in me wants all of these aspects to be completely independent from the host I choose to use. But realistically I am not that worried about losing data, the social graph is far more valuable. Even if I have 100 followers, I would still really want to preserve their connection to me if I am banned. I understand that I can do this by hosting my own instance - that's a good enough solution (for me).
    - rootusrootus 4y ago
      IMO the bigger issue isn't getting banned, it seems the more likely scenario is having the operator of the server decide for whatever reason to shut it down. This isn't likely to happen with Twitter.
      - _emacsomancer_ 4y ago
        It's perhaps less likely for Twitter than any one given Fediverse server/Mastodon instance. But the impact on the whole ecosystem is very different too. A single Fediverse instance shutting down could be annoying/sad, but it would only affect a subset of users, and those users could still, if need be, create a new account on another instance. Twitter shutting down closes everything for everyone.
        WorldMaker 4y ago
        Relatedly, Twitter isn't going to throw a bake sale to try to stop from shutting down, it will get devoured as quickly as it files Chapter 7 or Chapter 11 and debt holders descend like vultures. Most Mastodon instances are community run, and when they hit some rough straits in paying for their hosting some of them will have a (metaphorical) bake sale encouraging users to contribute to the hosting fund Patreon or will ask around if someone wants to take over the admin hot seat for a while. For those concerned about the longevity of specific instances that's generally the answer: ask the community how the admin pays for things, look for their Patreon, consider chipping in what you can each month.
  - khimaros 4y ago
    you may be interested in something like nostr, nomadnet, iris, or ssb. these all have decentralized identities baked in.
- Dylan16807 4y ago
  > At first this bugged me, but then it was pointed out that if you could just move your posts you could also potentially violate the moderation rules of the host you were moving to. So it makes some sense. So moderate it the same as if you reposted everything? I don't understand.
bkuehl 4y ago
To start, you should choose an instance that had been around for a while and isn't too small. Instances do shutdown occasionally but the admin(s) will give you plenty of time to migrate to a new instance. Mastodon has built-in tools to migrate your whole account (and content) to another instance if needed. I'm currently having to do that because a large well-established instance (mastodon.technology) is shutting down the end of the year.
- SifJar 4y ago
  > but the admin(s) will give you plenty of time to migrate to a new instance that seems like a big assumption - if I'm running an instance, what's to stop me pulling the plug with zero notice?
davidw 4y ago
This seems like a big weak point. I went to check it out just now and it's like "pick a server" and... I don't know, which one is best? Can I change later? Seems confusing, pass for now.
- sigmar 4y ago
  It's federated. Much like email. You can follow people on other servers and it pulls their feed. If you want to switch servers, you just make a new account (and just like email you'll need to tell your followers where you are going)
  - rootusrootus 4y ago
    > It's federated. Much like email. How feasible is it to have a username at a custom domain? In case the server you sign up on goes out of service. Do you have to set up your own instance in order to do that? Is there a barrier from setting up a new instance and then participating immediately in the wider federated network?
    - augustuspolius 4y ago
      I was just investigating this. You can run your own Mastodon instance on your custom domain (e.g. masto.host), but due to how Mastodon federation works, your instance will 1. host all your content 2. handle a ton of requests when people interact with you or your content: follow, favorite, boost, etc. Also every time a user follows you from an instance not federated with your instance it's a whole complicated process because federation has to be established between your instance and their instance (and, I think, every instance that they follow users from). So if I understand your question correctly: there is no way to separate your identity from your content. If you want to own your identity you will need to self-host. I am realizing now that the solution to these concerns is likely going to emerge from matrix.org, not Mastodon.
      - cmrdporcupine 4y ago
        Seems like there must be some sort of possibility for someone to create some sort of "lightweight hosting" option here. Where you get your own bespoke "host" where you own all the data and identity, etc. but it is actually physically managed on someone else's infra (something higher level than a vhost). Pay a small fee, get a subdomain, get your own masto node, get your own data, all encrypted, but someone else handles all the legwork of setting it up, federating it, etc.
CodeArtisan 4y ago
>Does it make any difference where I register first? Yes; Each instance has its own posting rules and an instance may suspend (block) another instance for different reasons. Mastodon.social has suspended quite a few instances, for example. Always read the about page of the instance before registering. https://mastodon.social/about https://mastodon.social/about