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It will be easy to switch to another platform and there will be tools to help as this post indicates. 4chan users are having fun saying the N word on Twitter an

It will be easy to switch to another platform and there will be tools to help as this post indicates. 4chan users are having fun saying the N word on Twitter and Le Bron James is complaining about it. And this is only day 2. I certainly think people should be able to exercise free speech, but that doesn't mean I have to listen to it. I can go somewhere else if Twitter gets too depressing.

leereeves 4y ago
> I certainly think people should be able to exercise free speech, but that doesn't mean I have to listen to it. Would that be different on Mastodon? I've never used it, but as a decentralized service, I assume it won't have a central authority banning users?
- cmrdporcupine 4y ago
  The difference is that each node has its own set of moderators. So jerks will get moderated there. And when they do that, they'll probably jump servers. And so get cordoned off into wherever federated node that they isolate themselves into. Note that each server decides which other servers it will federate and share content with. So eventually nodes that collect jerks will just get cut from most of the rest of the federation. It's certainly vulnerable to abuse. But it also leaves more room for community response. And it also doesn't have a recommendation "algorithm". You see the content you explicitly subscribe to. In chronological order. So dark patterns that arise out of feeding people rage tweets and engagement hacking and amplifying "controversial" crap for engagement... doesn't happen. So the platform isn't going to give an outsized "recommended" audience for crap just because it has high "likes" -- that's not how the platform works.
  - leereeves 4y ago
    That seems likely to result in a split. Not a few isolated servers with jerks, but one big federation with free speech types like Elon Musk, and a different federation with heavy moderation. But returning to a chronological feed would be nice.
    - cmrdporcupine 4y ago
      It's already heavily federated so it wouldn't be a binary split like you describe. Like, it wouldn't be "one federation with Musk types" vs "another with heavy moderation" but actually already a whole bunch of nodes with different types of moderation choosing to isolate away the Musk node. Or not. It would be up to each node. Note that "Gab" and "Truth Social" are both built on Mastodon. But they're isolated from the rest of the federated nodes.
      - leereeves 4y ago
        How does "it would be up to each node" work? Suppose there are three servers (A, B, C), and A is federated with both, but B isn't federated with C, and there's conversation between people on A and B. Do people on C only see the A side of the conversation?
        LuisAPI 4y ago
        No. Server A also sends messages coming from servers it federates with, so those on server C can see server B's messages, but C'ers just can't reply to them and expect B'ers to actually receive those messages.
        leereeves 4y ago
        > C'ers just can't reply to them and expect B'ers to actually receive those messages. Wouldn't A also forward those replies to B?
        cmrdporcupine 4y ago
        I am not fully clear on how threads are handled, but, yes, in principle visibility of users and posts is based on who they choose to federate with. So C would not see any content that originated out of B. Which AFAIK includes replies, etc. I'm a Mastodon newb and not an expert, I'm sure someone else more informed could give a better explanation of the subtleties.
      - RobotToaster 4y ago
  - Dracophoenix 4y ago
    > So eventually nodes that collect jerks will just get cut from most of the rest of the federation. Why do you assume the "jerks" wouldn't decide to federate among themselves. What's stopping them from creating a Splinternet (Splinterdon?) where they're free to say what they want? > So the platform isn't going to give an outsized "recommended" audience for crap just because it has high "likes" -- that's not how the platform works. You can't get rid of recommendations. Someone can easily build an easy to use page-ranked search engine for Mastodon servers, even if unofficial, and the engagement race will reinvent itself.
    - cmrdporcupine 4y ago
      Nothing would stop them. That's already happened -- that's effectively what Truth Social is, for example. And it wouldn't matter. Because the majority would be elsewhere. Or not. The point is that there's no centralized authority making this decision. And if I didn't like how the node I was on handled the moderation, and who it chose to federate with, I'd be free to move my account elsewhere. I personally would just choose to hang out on whatever Mastodon node that had cut itself off the the Musk/Trump-ish node.

leereeves 4y ago

> I certainly think people should be able to exercise free speech, but that doesn't mean I have to listen to it. Would that be different on Mastodon? I've never used it, but as a decentralized service, I assume it won't have a central authority banning users?

cmrdporcupine 4y ago
The difference is that each node has its own set of moderators. So jerks will get moderated there. And when they do that, they'll probably jump servers. And so get cordoned off into wherever federated node that they isolate themselves into. Note that each server decides which other servers it will federate and share content with. So eventually nodes that collect jerks will just get cut from most of the rest of the federation. It's certainly vulnerable to abuse. But it also leaves more room for community response. And it also doesn't have a recommendation "algorithm". You see the content you explicitly subscribe to. In chronological order. So dark patterns that arise out of feeding people rage tweets and engagement hacking and amplifying "controversial" crap for engagement... doesn't happen. So the platform isn't going to give an outsized "recommended" audience for crap just because it has high "likes" -- that's not how the platform works.
- leereeves 4y ago
  That seems likely to result in a split. Not a few isolated servers with jerks, but one big federation with free speech types like Elon Musk, and a different federation with heavy moderation. But returning to a chronological feed would be nice.
  - cmrdporcupine 4y ago
    It's already heavily federated so it wouldn't be a binary split like you describe. Like, it wouldn't be "one federation with Musk types" vs "another with heavy moderation" but actually already a whole bunch of nodes with different types of moderation choosing to isolate away the Musk node. Or not. It would be up to each node. Note that "Gab" and "Truth Social" are both built on Mastodon. But they're isolated from the rest of the federated nodes.
    - leereeves 4y ago
      How does "it would be up to each node" work? Suppose there are three servers (A, B, C), and A is federated with both, but B isn't federated with C, and there's conversation between people on A and B. Do people on C only see the A side of the conversation?
      - LuisAPI 4y ago
        No. Server A also sends messages coming from servers it federates with, so those on server C can see server B's messages, but C'ers just can't reply to them and expect B'ers to actually receive those messages.
        leereeves 4y ago
        > C'ers just can't reply to them and expect B'ers to actually receive those messages. Wouldn't A also forward those replies to B?
      - cmrdporcupine 4y ago
        I am not fully clear on how threads are handled, but, yes, in principle visibility of users and posts is based on who they choose to federate with. So C would not see any content that originated out of B. Which AFAIK includes replies, etc. I'm a Mastodon newb and not an expert, I'm sure someone else more informed could give a better explanation of the subtleties.
    - RobotToaster 4y ago
- Dracophoenix 4y ago
  > So eventually nodes that collect jerks will just get cut from most of the rest of the federation. Why do you assume the "jerks" wouldn't decide to federate among themselves. What's stopping them from creating a Splinternet (Splinterdon?) where they're free to say what they want? > So the platform isn't going to give an outsized "recommended" audience for crap just because it has high "likes" -- that's not how the platform works. You can't get rid of recommendations. Someone can easily build an easy to use page-ranked search engine for Mastodon servers, even if unofficial, and the engagement race will reinvent itself.
  - cmrdporcupine 4y ago
    Nothing would stop them. That's already happened -- that's effectively what Truth Social is, for example. And it wouldn't matter. Because the majority would be elsewhere. Or not. The point is that there's no centralized authority making this decision. And if I didn't like how the node I was on handled the moderation, and who it chose to federate with, I'd be free to move my account elsewhere. I personally would just choose to hang out on whatever Mastodon node that had cut itself off the the Musk/Trump-ish node.