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I don't know what motivate you to keep repeating this narrative, Clang currently have good support of C++23 while MSVC have none[1], if your emphasis is on the

I don't know what motivate you to keep repeating this narrative, Clang currently have good support of C++23 while MSVC have none[1], if your emphasis is on the standard library side, Clang is the only one that is compatible to all three major implementations and do use libstdc++ and MS STL on their respective "main" platforms. Also, why isn't Microsoft in the "profit from Clang" list? Is Clang-CL not shipped in Visual Studio Installer? Did they find a way to compile Edge with VC++? https://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/compiler_support/23 https://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/compiler_support/23

pjmlp 4y ago
I am not the only one, this is a common discussion point on C++ communities. Clang first should spend it's resources catching up with C++20, instead of spending them on C++23. The standard is yet to be fully finished.
- throwaway311022 4y ago
  Who exactly cares about C++20? Most (mis)features of the “standard” won’t be used for years anyway, until the codegen stabilizes and performance impact will be known. Most of people in these communities never got a dollar for a line of C++, and people who did rarely express their opinion (but you can still find it online if you try)
  - snovv_crash 4y ago
    It seems pretty obvious to me that you never lived through the bad old days when compilers all did whatever they wanted. Tell me again how much you care about C++20 when a library with a feature you want uses it but your toolchain doesn't support it.
snovv_crash 4y ago
Have you tried using ranges with latest clang? That's a pretty central part of C++20 and it doesn't work.
- boundchecked 4y ago
  Have you tried converting iterations to SIMD and using vector extension to target x86, ARM, Webassembly and compile for Linux/Windows/MacOS with a simple piece of code? It's a pretty significant speed up and it only work with Clang.
  - snovv_crash 4y ago
    What does that have to do with standards support?
  - pjmlp 4y ago
    None of that is part of ISO C++ compliance.
    - throwaway311022 4y ago
      How is ISO C++ compliance relevant to actual development?
      - pjmlp 4y ago
        For many places it is quite relevant when choosing official compiler toolchains. By the way, nice way of creating a throwaway account for the anti-ISO posts all over the place.
- throwaway311022 4y ago
  > Ranges [are] pretty central part of C++20 Just shows how distant the committee is from the developers.
cyber_kinetist 4y ago
Good to mention Microsoft is also depending on Clang for a lot of things (Microsoft is also quietly pushing devs to use Clang-Cl, as MSVC has really showed its age and is still notorious for bad error messages and subpar compiler optimizations…) Some console vendors are also depending on it as well (Sony, Nintendo). Clang really is the most important C++ project of all time, because it’s the only compiler that’s truly cross-platform (Windows, Mac, Linux, iOS, Android, game consoles, etc…) And recent failures in it catching up with C++20 should be very alarming.
- pjmlp 4y ago
  Where? MSVC is not going anywhere and has been partially rewritten.
- delta_p_delta_x 4y ago
  > Microsoft is also quietly pushing devs to use Clang-Cl Source?

pjmlp 4y ago

I am not the only one, this is a common discussion point on C++ communities. Clang first should spend it's resources catching up with C++20, instead of spending them on C++23. The standard is yet to be fully finished.

throwaway311022 4y ago
Who exactly cares about C++20? Most (mis)features of the “standard” won’t be used for years anyway, until the codegen stabilizes and performance impact will be known. Most of people in these communities never got a dollar for a line of C++, and people who did rarely express their opinion (but you can still find it online if you try)
- snovv_crash 4y ago
  It seems pretty obvious to me that you never lived through the bad old days when compilers all did whatever they wanted. Tell me again how much you care about C++20 when a library with a feature you want uses it but your toolchain doesn't support it.

snovv_crash 4y ago

Have you tried using ranges with latest clang? That's a pretty central part of C++20 and it doesn't work.

boundchecked 4y ago
Have you tried converting iterations to SIMD and using vector extension to target x86, ARM, Webassembly and compile for Linux/Windows/MacOS with a simple piece of code? It's a pretty significant speed up and it only work with Clang.
- snovv_crash 4y ago
  What does that have to do with standards support?
- pjmlp 4y ago
  None of that is part of ISO C++ compliance.
  - throwaway311022 4y ago
    How is ISO C++ compliance relevant to actual development?
    - pjmlp 4y ago
      For many places it is quite relevant when choosing official compiler toolchains. By the way, nice way of creating a throwaway account for the anti-ISO posts all over the place.
throwaway311022 4y ago
> Ranges [are] pretty central part of C++20 Just shows how distant the committee is from the developers.

cyber_kinetist 4y ago

Good to mention Microsoft is also depending on Clang for a lot of things (Microsoft is also quietly pushing devs to use Clang-Cl, as MSVC has really showed its age and is still notorious for bad error messages and subpar compiler optimizations…) Some console vendors are also depending on it as well (Sony, Nintendo). Clang really is the most important C++ project of all time, because it’s the only compiler that’s truly cross-platform (Windows, Mac, Linux, iOS, Android, game consoles, etc…) And recent failures in it catching up with C++20 should be very alarming.

pjmlp 4y ago
Where? MSVC is not going anywhere and has been partially rewritten.
delta_p_delta_x 4y ago
> Microsoft is also quietly pushing devs to use Clang-Cl Source?