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Unless the purpose of the game is educational, I don't think it's incumbent on them to educate their players about anything. Just like I don't expect everyone w

Unless the purpose of the game is educational, I don't think it's incumbent on them to educate their players about anything. Just like I don't expect everyone who sells something at the Renaissance Faire to use medieval furnaces for their blacksmithing or to eschew lathes for turning wood bowls. It's not their responsibility.

njdvndsjkvn 4y ago
DeathArrow 4y ago
I wasn't saying video games should educate people, I was referring about not meeting demands of the people with absurd expectation about reality.
andrewflnr 4y ago
But the education will happen, whether you mean it to or not. Most people have nothing but what they see to base they're expectations on, so if they see your game, and don't specifically read about pig herding in the middle ages, your game comprises the total information in their head on the topic. Congratulations, you're an educator! Now take some responsibility. Your point about authentic fabrication methods is entirely orthogonal. It's really hard to see why you brought that up.
- s1artibartfast 4y ago
  That responsibility is optional and it's fine for people to decline. It is also fine for someone like the author of this blog to highlight the topic so that some people may make choices to accurately depict pigs. It Is entirely unnecessary to bring morality into it.
  - account42 4y ago
    The thing about morality is that the details can differ from person to person, including what should or should not be covered by morality. Nothing wrong with advocating for your beliefs, especially if it comes with an argument about the impact on others.
- cgriswald 4y ago
  Perhaps you didn't mean to, but I think you've made an even stronger claim than @DeathArrow was trying to make. Following your logic, you have an obligation to all the English-learners who may believe your English errors are the proper way to write in English.
  - andrewflnr 4y ago
    Yes, I did, but not quite as strong as you're portraying it either. As an artist or other creator, you have to balance the inevitable impressions people will get against other concerns, notably that of never finishing. But you absolutely can't ignore it.
    - cgriswald 4y ago
      If your statement does not apply to your post, then the lines are blurry enough that your demand that people "take responsibility for it" seems far too prescriptive. Even claiming one "absolutely can't ignore it" (emphasis added) seem unsupportable.
      - account42 4y ago
        There are over 300 comments in this thread alone. There are only so many big budget medieval video games. The impact of a single comment on the english education of a random reader is simply not comparable to that of a game getting the pigs wrong.
      - andrewflnr 4y ago
        Do you want to point out a specific error in my use of English that's bad enough to make me a hypocrite, or are you just being pedantic for the hell of it? Bright-line rules about what you must or mustn't do are an unreasonable expectation in the domain of creating complex artistic artifacts. But if you know that what you create has an effect on people, and you don't care whether that effect is good or bad, well, I don't see what other possible basis you could have for morality or ethics. This is barely debatable when it comes to chemical pollution, or building technology that enables predatory businesses, or even mental and ideological concerns like carelessly spreading falsehood because it benefits your political allies. Fiction is not so different, and in some ways just as powerful, just as dangerous. Why is it even a question whether this should be taken seriously?

njdvndsjkvn 4y ago

DeathArrow 4y ago

I wasn't saying video games should educate people, I was referring about not meeting demands of the people with absurd expectation about reality.

andrewflnr 4y ago

But the education will happen, whether you mean it to or not. Most people have nothing but what they see to base they're expectations on, so if they see your game, and don't specifically read about pig herding in the middle ages, your game comprises the total information in their head on the topic. Congratulations, you're an educator! Now take some responsibility. Your point about authentic fabrication methods is entirely orthogonal. It's really hard to see why you brought that up.

s1artibartfast 4y ago
That responsibility is optional and it's fine for people to decline. It is also fine for someone like the author of this blog to highlight the topic so that some people may make choices to accurately depict pigs. It Is entirely unnecessary to bring morality into it.
- account42 4y ago
  The thing about morality is that the details can differ from person to person, including what should or should not be covered by morality. Nothing wrong with advocating for your beliefs, especially if it comes with an argument about the impact on others.
cgriswald 4y ago
Perhaps you didn't mean to, but I think you've made an even stronger claim than @DeathArrow was trying to make. Following your logic, you have an obligation to all the English-learners who may believe your English errors are the proper way to write in English.
- andrewflnr 4y ago
  Yes, I did, but not quite as strong as you're portraying it either. As an artist or other creator, you have to balance the inevitable impressions people will get against other concerns, notably that of never finishing. But you absolutely can't ignore it.
  - cgriswald 4y ago
    If your statement does not apply to your post, then the lines are blurry enough that your demand that people "take responsibility for it" seems far too prescriptive. Even claiming one "absolutely can't ignore it" (emphasis added) seem unsupportable.
    - account42 4y ago
      There are over 300 comments in this thread alone. There are only so many big budget medieval video games. The impact of a single comment on the english education of a random reader is simply not comparable to that of a game getting the pigs wrong.
    - andrewflnr 4y ago
      Do you want to point out a specific error in my use of English that's bad enough to make me a hypocrite, or are you just being pedantic for the hell of it? Bright-line rules about what you must or mustn't do are an unreasonable expectation in the domain of creating complex artistic artifacts. But if you know that what you create has an effect on people, and you don't care whether that effect is good or bad, well, I don't see what other possible basis you could have for morality or ethics. This is barely debatable when it comes to chemical pollution, or building technology that enables predatory businesses, or even mental and ideological concerns like carelessly spreading falsehood because it benefits your political allies. Fiction is not so different, and in some ways just as powerful, just as dangerous. Why is it even a question whether this should be taken seriously?