5 ms·

What's the sarcasm? You could argue the SAT is designed for testing skills that can only/primarily be learned within the current school system. And that System

What's the sarcasm? You could argue the SAT is designed for testing skills that can only/primarily be learned within the current school system. And that System is designed to keep minorities out, so I could argue there's a correlation there

tester756 4y ago
>You could argue the SAT is designed for testing skills that can only/primarily be learned within the current school system go ahead then and argue using that point, I'd want to know what makes you think so I've prepared for SAT's equivalent in my country mostly from the youtube videos, so I'm curious what makes you think like that
humanizersequel 4y ago
"that System is designed to keep minorities out" That is an extraordinary claim to make with such poorly defined terms and lack of evidence.
- ratsmack 4y ago
  This argument is parroted constantly regarding many things and not a shred of evidence is ever required.
  - thelock85 4y ago
    The evidence is literally in the federal and state legislation passed since late 1800s to support public education with extreme prejudice toward women and minorities. And the subsequent battle to make the system inclusive, culminating with the 1964 Elementary and Secondary Education Act (commonly grouped with “civil rights acts”). And even this law is continuously reauthorized by both sides on the aisle in the name of less discrimination (most recently “No Child Left Behind” and “Every Student Succeeds”). It is very true that “systemic discrimination” is an argument often parroted without evidence, especially in audiences that prefer rigorous scientific method to be persuaded. But it’s also true that counter arguments often lack evidence that systems are inclusive, and almost never take on anthropological context which take time and effort to build.
    - ratsmack 4y ago
      > (most recently “No Child Left Behind” and “Every Student Succeeds”) And now for the worst thing that ever happened to the government education system.
      - thelock85 4y ago
        No argument here. Though there’s tough competition for some of those Nixon-Reagan era reauthorizations of ESEA which set the stage for standardized tests being the primary benchmark for everything (and priming the pump for education publishers to create/expand the test prep industry).
  - splistud 4y ago
analyst74 4y ago
People are not arguing SAT is 100% fair, but that it's most fair compared to alternatives.
- dougSF70 4y ago
  I agree, it also provides a counterpoint to GPA scores. These scores are not standardized and are subject to school and school district policy.
erdos4d 4y ago
The math part is not so bad, but I definitely would agree that the verbal/written strongly favors students educated in affluent private schools. You just not going to get that vocab prep down in a poor public school with a lot of minorities. The SAT tests in the language of the US white elite.
- mackatap 4y ago
  It tests in grammatically correct English. Libraries are free. The internet exists. You can't expect a college to cover basic English writing that should have been learned over a lifetime.
- xienze 4y ago
  > The SAT tests in the language of the US white elite. How do Asians manage to do well on it? And let me guess, you’re specifically talking about the analogy question that refers to a regatta? That question is repeatedly trotted out as evidence of the SAT’s bias but it, or anything similar, hasn’t been found in the test in decades…
  - cuteboy19 4y ago
    The conclusion of course, in their minds at least, would be that Asians are white. Translate it to academic-speak and you would get something like "Asian benefit from white supremacy"
  - erdos4d 4y ago
    They go to the same private schools, have friends with, and also speak the language of the aforementioned white elite. I bet the few black kids who go to those schools, have those friends, and come from families who speak that language do pretty damn well too.
- WalterBright 4y ago
  Reading books targeted at adults will help immensely with vocabulary. It's fun, too. I read a lot of scifi in high school. I suspect that the only way to get a large vocabulary is to do a lot of reading. Certainly, watching TV won't do it (TV vocabulary is around 3000 words).
Aunche 4y ago
Let's say you have two students of the exact same baseline intelligence. Student A goes to a rich school district and scores well on the SAT. Student B goes to a poor school district and schools poorly on the SAT. That's a problem of the school districts, not of the SAT. Student A is objectively stronger student, and it does no one any favors to try to obscure this.

tester756 4y ago

>You could argue the SAT is designed for testing skills that can only/primarily be learned within the current school system go ahead then and argue using that point, I'd want to know what makes you think so I've prepared for SAT's equivalent in my country mostly from the youtube videos, so I'm curious what makes you think like that

humanizersequel 4y ago

"that System is designed to keep minorities out" That is an extraordinary claim to make with such poorly defined terms and lack of evidence.

ratsmack 4y ago
This argument is parroted constantly regarding many things and not a shred of evidence is ever required.
- thelock85 4y ago
  The evidence is literally in the federal and state legislation passed since late 1800s to support public education with extreme prejudice toward women and minorities. And the subsequent battle to make the system inclusive, culminating with the 1964 Elementary and Secondary Education Act (commonly grouped with “civil rights acts”). And even this law is continuously reauthorized by both sides on the aisle in the name of less discrimination (most recently “No Child Left Behind” and “Every Student Succeeds”). It is very true that “systemic discrimination” is an argument often parroted without evidence, especially in audiences that prefer rigorous scientific method to be persuaded. But it’s also true that counter arguments often lack evidence that systems are inclusive, and almost never take on anthropological context which take time and effort to build.
  - ratsmack 4y ago
    > (most recently “No Child Left Behind” and “Every Student Succeeds”) And now for the worst thing that ever happened to the government education system.
    - thelock85 4y ago
      No argument here. Though there’s tough competition for some of those Nixon-Reagan era reauthorizations of ESEA which set the stage for standardized tests being the primary benchmark for everything (and priming the pump for education publishers to create/expand the test prep industry).
- splistud 4y ago

analyst74 4y ago

People are not arguing SAT is 100% fair, but that it's most fair compared to alternatives.

dougSF70 4y ago
I agree, it also provides a counterpoint to GPA scores. These scores are not standardized and are subject to school and school district policy.

erdos4d 4y ago

The math part is not so bad, but I definitely would agree that the verbal/written strongly favors students educated in affluent private schools. You just not going to get that vocab prep down in a poor public school with a lot of minorities. The SAT tests in the language of the US white elite.

mackatap 4y ago
It tests in grammatically correct English. Libraries are free. The internet exists. You can't expect a college to cover basic English writing that should have been learned over a lifetime.
xienze 4y ago
> The SAT tests in the language of the US white elite. How do Asians manage to do well on it? And let me guess, you’re specifically talking about the analogy question that refers to a regatta? That question is repeatedly trotted out as evidence of the SAT’s bias but it, or anything similar, hasn’t been found in the test in decades…
- cuteboy19 4y ago
  The conclusion of course, in their minds at least, would be that Asians are white. Translate it to academic-speak and you would get something like "Asian benefit from white supremacy"
- erdos4d 4y ago
  They go to the same private schools, have friends with, and also speak the language of the aforementioned white elite. I bet the few black kids who go to those schools, have those friends, and come from families who speak that language do pretty damn well too.
WalterBright 4y ago
Reading books targeted at adults will help immensely with vocabulary. It's fun, too. I read a lot of scifi in high school. I suspect that the only way to get a large vocabulary is to do a lot of reading. Certainly, watching TV won't do it (TV vocabulary is around 3000 words).

Aunche 4y ago

Let's say you have two students of the exact same baseline intelligence. Student A goes to a rich school district and scores well on the SAT. Student B goes to a poor school district and schools poorly on the SAT. That's a problem of the school districts, not of the SAT. Student A is objectively stronger student, and it does no one any favors to try to obscure this.