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> A study ... suggested it may be driven by an inflammatory response associated with SARS-CoV-2’s spike protein, which the messenger RNA (mRNA) vaccines coax th

by dom2 4y ago

> A study ... suggested it may be driven by an inflammatory response associated with SARS-CoV-2’s spike protein, which the messenger RNA (mRNA) vaccines coax the body to produce. The group reported finding certain antibodies in both vaccine-induced myocarditis patients and patients with severe COVID-19, which itself can cause myocarditis. If those who had this reaction to the vaccine gotten COVID without the vaccine, would it not be likely that they would see the same inflammation response and the same heart damage? If that were the case, receiving the vaccine still seems like a reasonable choice.

fdewrewrewf 4y ago
If you get the vaccine, then you definitely get the vaccine.
- moistly 4y ago
  Is there not near-unanimous agreement that everyone is going to catch Covid at some point. Like, cave hermits are pretty much the only exception.
  - CharlesW 4y ago
    My family hasn't yet, and we're far from cave hermits — we just pretty consistently do smart, reasonable things. Around 25% of children and adolescents who get COVID-19 will get long COVID, the long-term effects of which are not well understood. I have no plans to surrender to "fate" and to stop doing smart, reasonable things.
    - andrewflnr 4y ago
      We're only, what, two years in? Give it a couple more. "Doing smart, reasonable things" only reduces the odds, not put them at zero. Iterate enough times, and the cumulative odds approach 1. FWIW I predicted that would be the situation in like March 2020. This isn't some new forced narrative, at least for me.
    - Llamamoe 4y ago
      I don't think the rate is that high. I think it's closer to 3%, give or take a few, right now, with an order of magnitude more cases of partial recovery of acute symptoms over time. Which IMO is still insane, but I don't think it's 1 in 4 level of bad.
  - JumpCrisscross 4y ago
    > there not near-unanimous agreement that everyone is going to catch Covid at some point Be infected by SARS-CoV-2, the virus, sure. Get Covid, the disease, no.
    - moistly 4y ago
      K, fair distinction.
  - kc22mr 4y ago
    There is not, and it pains me to hear people reinforcing that narrative. There are immunocompromised individuals within my family that have significantly higher risks of complications than the next person. For this reason, we take every precaution to avoid exposure and transmission. We have been fortunate to remain COVID-free so far, but please remember that there are lives hanging in the balance.
  - fdewrewrewf 4y ago
    That much was obvious as soon as it was determined that this new virus was a respiratory coronavirus.
    - VagueMag 4y ago
      - moistly 4y ago
        But… they did. It effectively keeps most of the vaccinated out of the ICU. > 4 in 5 COVID-19 patients in intensive care are not vaccinated against the coronavirus SARS-CoV-2. The chance that a fully vaccinated person will end up in ICU due to COVID-19 is 33 times lower than for a non-vaccinated person. : https://www.rivm.nl/en/news/4-in-5-covid-19-patients-in-icu-are-not-vaccinated https://www.rivm.nl/en/news/4-in-5-covid-19-patients-in-icu-... > Nearly all teenagers admitted to intensive care units because of COVID-19 were unvaccinated : https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid-19-vaccine/news/20220114/unvaccinated-teens-in-icu https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid-19-vaccine/news/2022011... > n this cross-sectional study of US adults hospitalized with COVID-19 during January 2022 to April 2022 (during Omicron variant predominance), COVID-19-associated hospitalization rates were 10.5 times higher in unvaccinated persons and 2.5 times higher in vaccinated persons with no booster dose, respectively, compared with those who had received a booster dose. Compared with unvaccinated hospitalized persons, vaccinated hospitalized persons were more likely to be older and have more underlying medical conditions. : https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2796235 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullar... And I could link up a dozen similar studies and reports that all say the same thing: the risks from vaccination are low, the risks from Covid are an order of magnitude greater. You have made this fraudulent claim twice. Along with, it appears, promoting a conspiracy theory that renegade researchers developed it as a bio weapon. You are, in my opinion, a terrible person, worthy of condemnation and dismissal.
        fdewrewrewf 4y ago
        >And I could link up a dozen similar studies and reports that all say the same thing: the risks from vaccination are low, the risks from Covid are an order of magnitude greater. Without absolute numbers, your "analysis" is meaningless. We're talking about seven deaths amongst teens. >The study noted that about three-fourths of the teenagers in the study had other medical conditions, such as obesity Not being fat is an excellent way to avoid having a bad time with Covid. Shame that the official advice caused many people to spend the last two years sitting on the couch, eating pizza. It is undeniable that the vaccine kept the most vulnerable out of the ICU. It is also very true that healthy people under about 45 were at minimal risk from Covid.
oaktrout 4y ago
Consider the magnitude of the immune response. In someone with pre-existing immunity the virus may replicate relatively little before being killed. Compare this to getting the vaccine, where your body will be flooded with spike protein whether you have previous immunity or not.
- ralph84 4y ago
  Exactly. And the most plausible explanation for the large variation in number of VAERS reports by lot number is that poor quality control meant some lots were "hot" and led to excessive spike protein production.
  - andrewflnr 4y ago
    Source? That would actually be quite encouraging, since it suggests an obvious way to fix the problem.
  - slaw 4y ago
    I got severe side effects from Pfizer vaccine and so did my spouse. We still didn't fully recover more than year later. We got vaccinated at the same Costco on the same day. I did it because of pressure from work as I had covid before. I didn't expect any health benefits, but I didn't expect year later I still have regrets to fall into trap.

by dom2 4y ago

fdewrewrewf 4y ago

If you get the vaccine, then you definitely get the vaccine.

moistly 4y ago
Is there not near-unanimous agreement that everyone is going to catch Covid at some point. Like, cave hermits are pretty much the only exception.
- CharlesW 4y ago
  My family hasn't yet, and we're far from cave hermits — we just pretty consistently do smart, reasonable things. Around 25% of children and adolescents who get COVID-19 will get long COVID, the long-term effects of which are not well understood. I have no plans to surrender to "fate" and to stop doing smart, reasonable things.
  - andrewflnr 4y ago
    We're only, what, two years in? Give it a couple more. "Doing smart, reasonable things" only reduces the odds, not put them at zero. Iterate enough times, and the cumulative odds approach 1. FWIW I predicted that would be the situation in like March 2020. This isn't some new forced narrative, at least for me.
  - Llamamoe 4y ago
    I don't think the rate is that high. I think it's closer to 3%, give or take a few, right now, with an order of magnitude more cases of partial recovery of acute symptoms over time. Which IMO is still insane, but I don't think it's 1 in 4 level of bad.
- JumpCrisscross 4y ago
  > there not near-unanimous agreement that everyone is going to catch Covid at some point Be infected by SARS-CoV-2, the virus, sure. Get Covid, the disease, no.
  - moistly 4y ago
    K, fair distinction.
- kc22mr 4y ago
  There is not, and it pains me to hear people reinforcing that narrative. There are immunocompromised individuals within my family that have significantly higher risks of complications than the next person. For this reason, we take every precaution to avoid exposure and transmission. We have been fortunate to remain COVID-free so far, but please remember that there are lives hanging in the balance.
- fdewrewrewf 4y ago
  That much was obvious as soon as it was determined that this new virus was a respiratory coronavirus.
  - VagueMag 4y ago
    - moistly 4y ago
      But… they did. It effectively keeps most of the vaccinated out of the ICU. > 4 in 5 COVID-19 patients in intensive care are not vaccinated against the coronavirus SARS-CoV-2. The chance that a fully vaccinated person will end up in ICU due to COVID-19 is 33 times lower than for a non-vaccinated person. : https://www.rivm.nl/en/news/4-in-5-covid-19-patients-in-icu-are-not-vaccinated https://www.rivm.nl/en/news/4-in-5-covid-19-patients-in-icu-... > Nearly all teenagers admitted to intensive care units because of COVID-19 were unvaccinated : https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid-19-vaccine/news/20220114/unvaccinated-teens-in-icu https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid-19-vaccine/news/2022011... > n this cross-sectional study of US adults hospitalized with COVID-19 during January 2022 to April 2022 (during Omicron variant predominance), COVID-19-associated hospitalization rates were 10.5 times higher in unvaccinated persons and 2.5 times higher in vaccinated persons with no booster dose, respectively, compared with those who had received a booster dose. Compared with unvaccinated hospitalized persons, vaccinated hospitalized persons were more likely to be older and have more underlying medical conditions. : https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2796235 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullar... And I could link up a dozen similar studies and reports that all say the same thing: the risks from vaccination are low, the risks from Covid are an order of magnitude greater. You have made this fraudulent claim twice. Along with, it appears, promoting a conspiracy theory that renegade researchers developed it as a bio weapon. You are, in my opinion, a terrible person, worthy of condemnation and dismissal.
      - fdewrewrewf 4y ago
        >And I could link up a dozen similar studies and reports that all say the same thing: the risks from vaccination are low, the risks from Covid are an order of magnitude greater. Without absolute numbers, your "analysis" is meaningless. We're talking about seven deaths amongst teens. >The study noted that about three-fourths of the teenagers in the study had other medical conditions, such as obesity Not being fat is an excellent way to avoid having a bad time with Covid. Shame that the official advice caused many people to spend the last two years sitting on the couch, eating pizza. It is undeniable that the vaccine kept the most vulnerable out of the ICU. It is also very true that healthy people under about 45 were at minimal risk from Covid.

oaktrout 4y ago

Consider the magnitude of the immune response. In someone with pre-existing immunity the virus may replicate relatively little before being killed. Compare this to getting the vaccine, where your body will be flooded with spike protein whether you have previous immunity or not.

ralph84 4y ago
Exactly. And the most plausible explanation for the large variation in number of VAERS reports by lot number is that poor quality control meant some lots were "hot" and led to excessive spike protein production.
- andrewflnr 4y ago
  Source? That would actually be quite encouraging, since it suggests an obvious way to fix the problem.
- slaw 4y ago
  I got severe side effects from Pfizer vaccine and so did my spouse. We still didn't fully recover more than year later. We got vaccinated at the same Costco on the same day. I did it because of pressure from work as I had covid before. I didn't expect any health benefits, but I didn't expect year later I still have regrets to fall into trap.