10 ms·
That is, surely, fixable by constructing transmission lines massively cheaper than nukes.
by ncmncm 4y ago
That is, surely, fixable by constructing transmission lines massively cheaper than nukes.
- rags2riches 4y agoTransmission capacity from the northern hydro to the southern nuclear regions has decreased due to the closing of reactors in the south. Power transmission is more complex than just building a fatter pipe to pour more water through. Having stable power in the south is a prerequisite to transfer hydro power from the north.
- brutusborn 4y agoI don't understand, surely the southern grid is stabilized by interconnections to europe? I thought closing reactors would be independent of transmission. What am I missing?
- halper 4y agoThey are separate grids: not synchronous, not stabilising each other. Most of the interconnections are HVDC links. Wikipedia has an article on synchronous grids of Northern Europe. The decommissioning of several large generating stations in southern Sweden has indeed affected the effective transmission capacity from the north.
- Gravityloss 4y agoCan you explain this in more detail.
- ncmncm 4y ago
- rongopo 4y agoFact: transmission lines are the bottlenecks of EU energy markets.
- brutusborn 4y agoI think it's a genuine comment, their others seem to be.
- coryrc 4y agoWhich would result in prices going up in the North. Ready to see why people would work against it.
- im3w1l 4y agoCould theoretically send wind power north when available, and send hydro south when it's not. Glad we are doing nukes though.
- acchow 4y agoAs more nuclear power plants are built, we will be building up expertise to make them safer. This AP1000 design already is much more inherently safe than Gen 1 or 2 reactors
- Gravityloss 4y agoBut they get better price for their electricity, more profit for the plant, more taxes and thus the people benefit. Yes, local electricity bill would go up but if the price is often extremely low, selling some for higher price is a net win. Ie this is why we have trade as concept in the first place.
- nawitus 4y agoYes, the overall economy does better, but the local people might get higher electric bills but little other benefits, as the profit goes to the power plants. Usually increased tax revenue is less than the increased cost for the consumer.
- ZeroGravitas 4y agoIronically, this is why the interconnects to mainland Europe that let (southern) Sweden sell its electricity at high prices when there is demand elsewhere are a good thing for everyone involved. Not a good sign when right-wing governments are complaining about market based price signals and trade.
- 4y ago
- thehappypm 4y agoMaybe, but more power generation is a better investment. $1 spent on nuclear generates $10 in energy. $1 spent on transmission lines is just $1 gone.
- lawn 4y agoIt doesn't in any way solve the increasing electricity need in the future though, even assuming it would be fast and cheap to fix (it's not). That said, the coalition also wants to improve the transmission lines.
- fyvhbhn 4y agoFix increasing electricity need
- lawn 4y agoAbout as easy as fixing world peace. Also, a lot of the new energy needs comes from "green steel", which would give massive reduction in the green house gas production required to produce steel. But for that to make sense we need lots of clean energy.
- doikor 4y agoTransmission lines increase the end customer costs (a lot). They are necessary but you want as little of them as you can get away with. Obviously not having enough can also increase costs as you have to use very expensive forms of production to compensate. Here in Finland the transmission costs before this current price hike were usually 50%+ (for me with my current fixed price contract they are around 60%) of the total electricity bill. We got a really good network but it does come with a cost.
- fulafel 4y agoIn the globalisation/market liberalism mindset it's traditionally considered good if places with high supply and low demand export to areas where products fetch higher prices.
- doikor 4y agoTrue but not when the upkeep of that infrastructure costs more than the profits you get from selling your high supply product in the far away high demand market. Obviously with the current market prices the cost of the transmission capabilities is a rounding error but if we get back to the electricity prices of a year or two ago the costs of transmission could start to dominate the price again so you have to be careful about investments like this (just like you have to be with nuclear plants for the case that the price on the markets is goes permanently under your production costs) And transmission capability upgrades are really long term investments. Sweden started lately to try and fix this issue. If that project finishes on time it will take 14 years to finish. These are the kind of timescales where building a new nuclear power plant can be a faster fix.
- bennofs 4y agoDo you know if redispatch costs are included as part of your transmission costs and how much they are? Because if they are, then investing into the transmission lines can decrease transmission costs since the providers need to pay less for redispatch.
- smarx007 4y agoTell that to Germans https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suedlink https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suedlink (started planning in 2011, the construction should have taken place 2016-2022, now they are hoping it will be done by 2028, lots on NIMBY court challenges along the route of the cabling).
- dane-pgp 4y agoTell that to the French. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flamanville_Nuclear_Power_Plant https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flamanville_Nuclear_Power_Plan... reactor three (construction started in 2007, now they are hoping it will begin operation in mid-2023).
- kergonath 4y agoIdeally you’d do both.