5 ms·

The periphery is and will always be poor because of cultural problems. People make the politicians, not the other way around.

by nalaz 4y ago

yrgulation 4y ago
Is porn banned in germany or why do people enjoy poverty porn so much? The periphery is anything but poor. There are gaps between eu countries but east south and west are consistently ranking high in term of economic development. Anaemic growth doesnt equal poverty.
- inglor_cz 4y ago
  My wife speaks Spanish fluently and we often travel to Spain. Spain as such may not be exactly poor, but quite a lot of people are living in very subpar conditions. Andalusia in particular has a lot of visibly poor natives. Even African migrants do not want to stay there and if they manage to cross the Strait of Gibraltar, they immediately travel north to France/Britain/Germany.
  - yrgulation 4y ago
    Oh please. Thats like saying california is poor because san francisco has homeless people. Just because people dont drive fancy cars or homes arent refurbished in a region where it rarely rains it doesnt mean they are poor. Even east eu is rich compared to most of the world. I agree with you on slow growth but eu countries are anything but poor. Mismanaged yes. Poor not so much.
    - inglor_cz 4y ago
      I am not sure if it has anything to do with rain. Israel does not have much rain either and homes look much better there. And when we speak to the locals in Spain, their typical complaint is that they struggle to make the ends meet. "I wasn't on a vacation for seven years." - "I think twice before taking a RENFE train even though it is twice as fast as a bus." - "Kids won't probably be getting new laptops ever." etc. Comparisons to the rest of the world are misleading. Being better off than Algeria or Brazil isn't that much of a result. Spanish people naturally compare themselves to other Europeans and the gap between the relative riches of Spain and, say, (West) Germany or Switzerland, is pretty visible. So is the fact that the gap does not seem to be closing, rather the other way round. I agree that mismanagement is a huge part of the problem, and that it is mostly domestic. For one, the political parties seem to be enormously corrupt, on par with the Balkans.
      - yrgulation 4y ago
        I’ve been to germany and belgium recently and frankly wasnt impressed. German roads are constantly under maintenance - cant they just build them right or why are they constantly being fixed? Belgian motorways had potholes in them and were poorly marked. Also most germans dont own the properties they live in and their savings would last enough for maybe a month. Anyway the idea is that there are issues everywhere in europe you just need keep your eyes wide open. The solution is policies that benefit everyone. Also i doubt spanish politicians are that corrupt. Or indeed any within the eu. There is corruption in the eu and even germany but nowhere near that level.
        GekkePrutser 4y ago
        German roads are under so much maintenance to prevent the potholes you see In Belgium ;). Can't have your cake and eat it. When I used to drive from Holland to Belgium it was very clear when we'd enter the country. No signs needed, when the road gets super noisy and bumpy you know you're in Belgium. And remember that many German motorways still have no speed limit. Hitting a pothole at 250kph is not fun and as such they need to be maintained to high standards. And when there's a fair rental system with restricted prices there is no need to own property. Not sure if Germany has this but I know Austria does and Vienna is thriving on it.
        yrgulation 4y ago
        France and the netherlands have good roads and yet they dont constantly have to maintain them. If germany would build them right and with quality in mind the first time they wouldnt break so often. Not sure where you can reach 250kph if most of the autobahn is under repairs. But speaking of driving in germany i found the constant tailgating and the general aggressiveness and flashing similar to east europe 10 years ago. Horrible driving culture. But yes we can all agree belgian roads are in a league of their own. Suppose that makes belgium poor? I am new to this game but from what i gather is that any country that has a visible issue is poor. Maybe germany is poor because it cant afford gas? A german minister was complaining that american lng is too expensive for germany. Also renting and the government stepping in to keep rents at a low price sounds like poverty and socialism to me. Not a good sign.
    - mmarq 4y ago
      Actually I’d be very surprised if houses in Spain where worse than houses in Britain, whose lack of housing quality rivals with some central African countries.
      - yrgulation 4y ago
        I wouldnt insult central african countries by comparing their housing quality to the appalling housing quality in britain.
- mmarq 4y ago
  I don’t live in Germany and, of course, Italy and Spain are poor compared to Sweden or Germany, not in general.
  - yrgulation 4y ago
    So if all of these countries are not poor in general then why this poverty fetishism? Why the constant “i am richer than you” in europe when all of europe is sinking?
    - inglor_cz 4y ago
      People naturally compare themselves to their neighbors. This isn't anything out of the ordinary, it is just human nature.
tkk23 4y ago
If you look at the USA then the profits are made at the periphery. Profits can be made anywhere. Sooner or later, they will be made where living is more pleasant and that's at the European periphery. Which cultural problems exists that keeps the periphery poor? I would like to argue that the cultures of the periphery are what will attract people and customers and what will allow the periphery to develop.
- yrgulation 4y ago
  Germany is making a killing in selling their cars and tools to the “periphery”. East europe being their largest export market - some 30%. The main cultural issues that keep the periphery poor are those stemming from the “core”. Always shitting on the south and east is what keeps those regions stagnating. What upsets me is that they turn the other cheek instead of slapping right back.
  - mmarq 4y ago
    I find this obsession with Germans selling cars to the Italians partly amusing and partly patronising. Of course the Italians can’t take their responsibilities because of… pizza? Super Mario? The godfather?
  - tkk23 4y ago
    Do you have an example for the 'shitting'? I don't understand how the shitting, and slapping right back is economically relevant. How is it preventing a country or a region from picking a market and becoming a global leader and thus earning high margins? E.g. people have been dissing China's product quality for ages and yet that hasn't prevented China from improving. As a side note, it shouldn't be an economic disadvantage that Germany exports 30% to the European periphery. Cars are a competitive market with French, Korean, Japanese and American offers. The periphery should be able to make back much more if they specialize in products of a high-margin market. E.g. if I were a politician, I would go all-in on medical research and try to develop some world-leading equipment or cures.
    - deleted 4y ago
tux3 4y ago
To an extent, the political climate and the weight of existing institution can uphold the culture. People governed by politicians with suboptimal characteristics don't necessarily get to make decisions with perfect information, or to enjoy a voting system where votes have equal weight and reflect popular sentiment. A sufficiently corrupt system can self-sustain for many years. With enough indirection and few votes, people have correspondingly increasingly limited input into their political decisions (or the indirect decisions of their representants).

The periphery is and will always be poor because of cultural problems. People make the politicians, not the other way around.

by nalaz 4y ago

The periphery is and will always be poor because of cultural problems. People make the politicians, not the other way around.

yrgulation 4y ago

Is porn banned in germany or why do people enjoy poverty porn so much? The periphery is anything but poor. There are gaps between eu countries but east south and west are consistently ranking high in term of economic development. Anaemic growth doesnt equal poverty.

inglor_cz 4y ago
My wife speaks Spanish fluently and we often travel to Spain. Spain as such may not be exactly poor, but quite a lot of people are living in very subpar conditions. Andalusia in particular has a lot of visibly poor natives. Even African migrants do not want to stay there and if they manage to cross the Strait of Gibraltar, they immediately travel north to France/Britain/Germany.
- yrgulation 4y ago
  Oh please. Thats like saying california is poor because san francisco has homeless people. Just because people dont drive fancy cars or homes arent refurbished in a region where it rarely rains it doesnt mean they are poor. Even east eu is rich compared to most of the world. I agree with you on slow growth but eu countries are anything but poor. Mismanaged yes. Poor not so much.
  - inglor_cz 4y ago
    I am not sure if it has anything to do with rain. Israel does not have much rain either and homes look much better there. And when we speak to the locals in Spain, their typical complaint is that they struggle to make the ends meet. "I wasn't on a vacation for seven years." - "I think twice before taking a RENFE train even though it is twice as fast as a bus." - "Kids won't probably be getting new laptops ever." etc. Comparisons to the rest of the world are misleading. Being better off than Algeria or Brazil isn't that much of a result. Spanish people naturally compare themselves to other Europeans and the gap between the relative riches of Spain and, say, (West) Germany or Switzerland, is pretty visible. So is the fact that the gap does not seem to be closing, rather the other way round. I agree that mismanagement is a huge part of the problem, and that it is mostly domestic. For one, the political parties seem to be enormously corrupt, on par with the Balkans.
    - yrgulation 4y ago
      I’ve been to germany and belgium recently and frankly wasnt impressed. German roads are constantly under maintenance - cant they just build them right or why are they constantly being fixed? Belgian motorways had potholes in them and were poorly marked. Also most germans dont own the properties they live in and their savings would last enough for maybe a month. Anyway the idea is that there are issues everywhere in europe you just need keep your eyes wide open. The solution is policies that benefit everyone. Also i doubt spanish politicians are that corrupt. Or indeed any within the eu. There is corruption in the eu and even germany but nowhere near that level.
      - GekkePrutser 4y ago
        German roads are under so much maintenance to prevent the potholes you see In Belgium ;). Can't have your cake and eat it. When I used to drive from Holland to Belgium it was very clear when we'd enter the country. No signs needed, when the road gets super noisy and bumpy you know you're in Belgium. And remember that many German motorways still have no speed limit. Hitting a pothole at 250kph is not fun and as such they need to be maintained to high standards. And when there's a fair rental system with restricted prices there is no need to own property. Not sure if Germany has this but I know Austria does and Vienna is thriving on it.
        yrgulation 4y ago
        France and the netherlands have good roads and yet they dont constantly have to maintain them. If germany would build them right and with quality in mind the first time they wouldnt break so often. Not sure where you can reach 250kph if most of the autobahn is under repairs. But speaking of driving in germany i found the constant tailgating and the general aggressiveness and flashing similar to east europe 10 years ago. Horrible driving culture. But yes we can all agree belgian roads are in a league of their own. Suppose that makes belgium poor? I am new to this game but from what i gather is that any country that has a visible issue is poor. Maybe germany is poor because it cant afford gas? A german minister was complaining that american lng is too expensive for germany. Also renting and the government stepping in to keep rents at a low price sounds like poverty and socialism to me. Not a good sign.
  - mmarq 4y ago
    Actually I’d be very surprised if houses in Spain where worse than houses in Britain, whose lack of housing quality rivals with some central African countries.
    - yrgulation 4y ago
      I wouldnt insult central african countries by comparing their housing quality to the appalling housing quality in britain.
mmarq 4y ago
I don’t live in Germany and, of course, Italy and Spain are poor compared to Sweden or Germany, not in general.
- yrgulation 4y ago
  So if all of these countries are not poor in general then why this poverty fetishism? Why the constant “i am richer than you” in europe when all of europe is sinking?
  - inglor_cz 4y ago
    People naturally compare themselves to their neighbors. This isn't anything out of the ordinary, it is just human nature.

tkk23 4y ago

If you look at the USA then the profits are made at the periphery. Profits can be made anywhere. Sooner or later, they will be made where living is more pleasant and that's at the European periphery. Which cultural problems exists that keeps the periphery poor? I would like to argue that the cultures of the periphery are what will attract people and customers and what will allow the periphery to develop.

yrgulation 4y ago
Germany is making a killing in selling their cars and tools to the “periphery”. East europe being their largest export market - some 30%. The main cultural issues that keep the periphery poor are those stemming from the “core”. Always shitting on the south and east is what keeps those regions stagnating. What upsets me is that they turn the other cheek instead of slapping right back.
- mmarq 4y ago
  I find this obsession with Germans selling cars to the Italians partly amusing and partly patronising. Of course the Italians can’t take their responsibilities because of… pizza? Super Mario? The godfather?
- tkk23 4y ago
  Do you have an example for the 'shitting'? I don't understand how the shitting, and slapping right back is economically relevant. How is it preventing a country or a region from picking a market and becoming a global leader and thus earning high margins? E.g. people have been dissing China's product quality for ages and yet that hasn't prevented China from improving. As a side note, it shouldn't be an economic disadvantage that Germany exports 30% to the European periphery. Cars are a competitive market with French, Korean, Japanese and American offers. The periphery should be able to make back much more if they specialize in products of a high-margin market. E.g. if I were a politician, I would go all-in on medical research and try to develop some world-leading equipment or cures.
  - deleted 4y ago

tux3 4y ago

To an extent, the political climate and the weight of existing institution can uphold the culture. People governed by politicians with suboptimal characteristics don't necessarily get to make decisions with perfect information, or to enjoy a voting system where votes have equal weight and reflect popular sentiment. A sufficiently corrupt system can self-sustain for many years. With enough indirection and few votes, people have correspondingly increasingly limited input into their political decisions (or the indirect decisions of their representants).