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The Harvard university president has stated many times that admissions are weighted and if you are Asian, will have a much harder time getting accepted. It see

The Harvard university president has stated many times that admissions are weighted and if you are Asian, will have a much harder time getting accepted. It seems racism is accepted in academia, when it affects a demographic you deem 'problematic'

lo_zamoyski 4y ago
The least conspiratorial explanation is the use of racial quotas.
jonahbenton 4y ago
As a NYC public school parent now with kids in college, who sees mono-white, mono-asian and mono-black school cultures (all 3 of which NYC unfortunately has lots of) as abhorrent, there is nothing wrong with not wanting a mono-culture in a community. (Go ahead. Downvote. It does wonders to change my mind lol).
- arolihas 4y ago
  Why is that abhorrent to you?
  - adamsmith143 4y ago
    The real world is not a monoculture so why would you want your child to socialize in one?
    - arolihas 4y ago
      A lot of the real world is a "monoculture". Just because a majority of people look similar doesn't mean they all share similar ideologies, experiences, and values necessarily. Race is merely a social construct, and the Asian category covers several unique nationalities and cultures. Black and white are similarly ludicrously diverse. And these are young adults who should be bright enough to seek out diverse experiences and places if it suits them. If Harvard really cared about not being a monoculture they would look at their legacy admissions.
    - dahfizz 4y ago
      "abhorrent" is much much stronger than "suboptimal for socialization skills". Besides, every other country in the world gets to have its own cultural identity. The "real world" is very much a collection of monocultures. Only in America is it considered bad to have a cultural identity.
    - ryan93 4y ago
      IF that is what harvard is doing why do they STRONGLY prefer black immigrants over descendants of slavery.
    - Gareth321 4y ago
      > The real world is not a monoculture Here you use the term "monoculture." You appear to be using culture and race interchangeably. Clearly they are not the same. Are you referring to monoculture or monorace?
    - googlryas 4y ago
      "Asian" isn't a culture. Hell, even "Chinese" isn't a culture. China recognizes 55 ethnic minority groups, plus the Han majority. I'm sure if you put one person from each group into a classroom, you might say "They're all Chinese. Monoculture!", but it couldn't be further from the truth.
- alex_sf 4y ago
  Sure, it's not ideal. Is the solution to have different standards for different groups based solely on skin color or self-identification?
  - socialismisok 4y ago
    It reasonably could be, if you are trying to undo systemic disadvantages that different groups have. You have to make a conscious choice to accept some adjustments higher if the foundation is systematically unfair. It might feel unfair to the folks who benefit from systematic advantages early.
    - prottog 4y ago
      You're arguing that past discrimination justifies present discrimination, and that past discrimination is in fact solely or majorly responsible for present disparities in outcomes. I can't see a world in which these positions are provable in a meaningful manner and not devolve society into a bitter, recriminatory cesspit, especially when it means that some people will in fact be hurt by present discrimination.
      - socialismisok 4y ago
        Redlining is provable and had a clear outcome on income. It ended only very recently. And yeah, fixing that is going to cost some folks. Good news, we could figure out who benefitted or even just tax the very wealthy to get it fixed.
- dahfizz 4y ago
  Why? Why does skin color == culture, and why is "mono-culture" abhorrent? Personally, I find treating people like trading cards and trying to "collect them all" is much more abhorrent.
hotpotamus 4y ago
I see this brought up a lot and it always makes me wonder - what is the "correct" number of black people who should be admitted to Harvard? Like if you removed any racial consideration, what would be the results?
- glerk 4y ago
  The correct number of X group who should be admitted is the number of individuals in X group who meet the academic standard to be admitted. How about we stop giving those arbitrary buckets so much importance and treat everyone like individuals?
  - hotpotamus 4y ago
    Yes, and I wonder what the racial composition of such a standard would be.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - glerk 4y ago
      Take a look at the table in the linked post and you might get an idea. The real question is why are you so interested in these buckets? Why are you trying to impose them on the rest of us?
      - hotpotamus 4y ago
        I don't find the table all that helpful. I don't know the exact numbers, but given the number of black kids in the country, and the limited number of seats at Harvard, couldn't you construct a class of nothing but black students from the top SAT bracket and still have to deny most of them? As far as why I'm interested in these buckets - it's because this seems to be a very pressing matter of national concern - isn't there a supreme court case regarding this issue on the docket now?
        4y ago
glerk 4y ago
This is the subject of a current litigation. Hopefully the Supreme Court comes through and puts an end to this clown show.
googlryas 4y ago
Why don't Asians just decline to self identify? Are admissions looking at names or something and saying "yup, this is an Asian"?

lo_zamoyski 4y ago

The least conspiratorial explanation is the use of racial quotas.

jonahbenton 4y ago

As a NYC public school parent now with kids in college, who sees mono-white, mono-asian and mono-black school cultures (all 3 of which NYC unfortunately has lots of) as abhorrent, there is nothing wrong with not wanting a mono-culture in a community. (Go ahead. Downvote. It does wonders to change my mind lol).

arolihas 4y ago
Why is that abhorrent to you?
- adamsmith143 4y ago
  The real world is not a monoculture so why would you want your child to socialize in one?
  - arolihas 4y ago
    A lot of the real world is a "monoculture". Just because a majority of people look similar doesn't mean they all share similar ideologies, experiences, and values necessarily. Race is merely a social construct, and the Asian category covers several unique nationalities and cultures. Black and white are similarly ludicrously diverse. And these are young adults who should be bright enough to seek out diverse experiences and places if it suits them. If Harvard really cared about not being a monoculture they would look at their legacy admissions.
  - dahfizz 4y ago
    "abhorrent" is much much stronger than "suboptimal for socialization skills". Besides, every other country in the world gets to have its own cultural identity. The "real world" is very much a collection of monocultures. Only in America is it considered bad to have a cultural identity.
  - ryan93 4y ago
    IF that is what harvard is doing why do they STRONGLY prefer black immigrants over descendants of slavery.
  - Gareth321 4y ago
    > The real world is not a monoculture Here you use the term "monoculture." You appear to be using culture and race interchangeably. Clearly they are not the same. Are you referring to monoculture or monorace?
  - googlryas 4y ago
    "Asian" isn't a culture. Hell, even "Chinese" isn't a culture. China recognizes 55 ethnic minority groups, plus the Han majority. I'm sure if you put one person from each group into a classroom, you might say "They're all Chinese. Monoculture!", but it couldn't be further from the truth.
alex_sf 4y ago
Sure, it's not ideal. Is the solution to have different standards for different groups based solely on skin color or self-identification?
- socialismisok 4y ago
  It reasonably could be, if you are trying to undo systemic disadvantages that different groups have. You have to make a conscious choice to accept some adjustments higher if the foundation is systematically unfair. It might feel unfair to the folks who benefit from systematic advantages early.
  - prottog 4y ago
    You're arguing that past discrimination justifies present discrimination, and that past discrimination is in fact solely or majorly responsible for present disparities in outcomes. I can't see a world in which these positions are provable in a meaningful manner and not devolve society into a bitter, recriminatory cesspit, especially when it means that some people will in fact be hurt by present discrimination.
    - socialismisok 4y ago
      Redlining is provable and had a clear outcome on income. It ended only very recently. And yeah, fixing that is going to cost some folks. Good news, we could figure out who benefitted or even just tax the very wealthy to get it fixed.
dahfizz 4y ago
Why? Why does skin color == culture, and why is "mono-culture" abhorrent? Personally, I find treating people like trading cards and trying to "collect them all" is much more abhorrent.

hotpotamus 4y ago

I see this brought up a lot and it always makes me wonder - what is the "correct" number of black people who should be admitted to Harvard? Like if you removed any racial consideration, what would be the results?

glerk 4y ago
The correct number of X group who should be admitted is the number of individuals in X group who meet the academic standard to be admitted. How about we stop giving those arbitrary buckets so much importance and treat everyone like individuals?
- hotpotamus 4y ago
  Yes, and I wonder what the racial composition of such a standard would be.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - glerk 4y ago
    Take a look at the table in the linked post and you might get an idea. The real question is why are you so interested in these buckets? Why are you trying to impose them on the rest of us?
    - hotpotamus 4y ago
      I don't find the table all that helpful. I don't know the exact numbers, but given the number of black kids in the country, and the limited number of seats at Harvard, couldn't you construct a class of nothing but black students from the top SAT bracket and still have to deny most of them? As far as why I'm interested in these buckets - it's because this seems to be a very pressing matter of national concern - isn't there a supreme court case regarding this issue on the docket now?
      - 4y ago

glerk 4y ago

This is the subject of a current litigation. Hopefully the Supreme Court comes through and puts an end to this clown show.

googlryas 4y ago

Why don't Asians just decline to self identify? Are admissions looking at names or something and saying "yup, this is an Asian"?