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It's not currently overloaded and overwhelmed with Covid patients. I would argue that this is the fallout of the policies put in place since March 2020 - a dead

It's not currently overloaded and overwhelmed with Covid patients. I would argue that this is the fallout of the policies put in place since March 2020 - a deadly combination of less healthcare available due to the increased resources dedicated to Covid protections, and a 2+ year backlog of people who have been waiting to access healthcare. That backlog is also growing, as our GP healthcare system (which is usually the gateway to accessing healthcare) has effectively ground to a halt. It's hard to see how it would be worse if we hadn't "Saved the NHS".

orwin 4y ago
In France, we have the same issues, but it clearly would've been worse without the special mesures taken in hospitals. However, our response still lacked 'localization' (if you have another word, be my guest), and would've been better if hospitals in less impacted areas weren't also stepping down on consultations/operations after the initial surge. My cousin from eastern France sent more than 50 patients to western France, and 8 in Germany during the two weeks following the lockdowns, so I'm not saying it was a bad idea at first, but after the first wave, we could have adapted better. The issue is that everything is politicized now, i don't like the government much but i am able to say they reacted well in some regards (and the administration was surprisingly competent and effective, i worked with them at the time and in time of crisis, it's night and day), and fucked things up in other. Also people choose weird hills do die on. If you're wrong, you're wrong. You might have had circumstances why, and maybe you're only 50% wrong, but just accept it.
cassianoleal 4y ago
> It's not currently overloaded and overwhelmed with Covid patients. Do you have a reference for this? I'm not doubting you but a couple months ago I visited the A&E in Whitechapel for an ankle injury. I asked one of the nurses and the doctor who saw me (they were both lovely but seemed quite stressed) about this and both separately told me there are still too many Covid patients in the hospital. That, and the fact that NHS personnel keep having to isolate.
- fdewrewrewf 4y ago
  "Patients in Hospital", or "Patients in Mechanical Ventilation Beds" https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/healthcare https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/healthcare The UK has around 150k hospital beds, and 5k mechanical ventilation beds, so its never been about the absolute numbers of Covid patients. It's always been the additional workload due to Covid policies (and that includes staff isolation). Those make sense, if it is deemed that catching and/or spreading Covid is worse than any other healthcare outcome.
  - cassianoleal 4y ago
    Thanks. So you mean that because there are plenty of hospital beds and ventilators, the system is not overwhelmed? I see the doctors, nurses and the rest of the staff as part of the system. If there's not enough of them to cope with the demand, then the system is overwhelmed.
    - fdewrewrewf 4y ago
      No, I chose my words very carefully. The NHS is still overwhelmed/falling apart, but it was not the number of Covid patients that did this. The biggest difficulty has been the Covid policies put into place, both inside and outside hospitals. It's difficult, time-consuming, and stressful to follow those policies (both parents work for the NHS, btw), not to mention the number of staff who had to isolate. The social services that would receive many patients after their hospital stay are also overwhelmed/falling apart (probably for similar reasons), so many patients cannot be discharged. I'll say it again - it all makes sense, if avoiding Covid is the absolute number 1 priority, and if "letting it rip" would have made things worse than they are now.
      - gadders 4y ago
        >>The biggest difficulty has been the Covid policies put into place, both inside and outside hospitals. Not that they were followed particularly well. My dad was in hospital for unrelated reasons, caught COVID and died within 3 days.

orwin 4y ago

In France, we have the same issues, but it clearly would've been worse without the special mesures taken in hospitals. However, our response still lacked 'localization' (if you have another word, be my guest), and would've been better if hospitals in less impacted areas weren't also stepping down on consultations/operations after the initial surge. My cousin from eastern France sent more than 50 patients to western France, and 8 in Germany during the two weeks following the lockdowns, so I'm not saying it was a bad idea at first, but after the first wave, we could have adapted better. The issue is that everything is politicized now, i don't like the government much but i am able to say they reacted well in some regards (and the administration was surprisingly competent and effective, i worked with them at the time and in time of crisis, it's night and day), and fucked things up in other. Also people choose weird hills do die on. If you're wrong, you're wrong. You might have had circumstances why, and maybe you're only 50% wrong, but just accept it.

cassianoleal 4y ago

> It's not currently overloaded and overwhelmed with Covid patients. Do you have a reference for this? I'm not doubting you but a couple months ago I visited the A&E in Whitechapel for an ankle injury. I asked one of the nurses and the doctor who saw me (they were both lovely but seemed quite stressed) about this and both separately told me there are still too many Covid patients in the hospital. That, and the fact that NHS personnel keep having to isolate.

fdewrewrewf 4y ago
"Patients in Hospital", or "Patients in Mechanical Ventilation Beds" https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/healthcare https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/healthcare The UK has around 150k hospital beds, and 5k mechanical ventilation beds, so its never been about the absolute numbers of Covid patients. It's always been the additional workload due to Covid policies (and that includes staff isolation). Those make sense, if it is deemed that catching and/or spreading Covid is worse than any other healthcare outcome.
- cassianoleal 4y ago
  Thanks. So you mean that because there are plenty of hospital beds and ventilators, the system is not overwhelmed? I see the doctors, nurses and the rest of the staff as part of the system. If there's not enough of them to cope with the demand, then the system is overwhelmed.
  - fdewrewrewf 4y ago
    No, I chose my words very carefully. The NHS is still overwhelmed/falling apart, but it was not the number of Covid patients that did this. The biggest difficulty has been the Covid policies put into place, both inside and outside hospitals. It's difficult, time-consuming, and stressful to follow those policies (both parents work for the NHS, btw), not to mention the number of staff who had to isolate. The social services that would receive many patients after their hospital stay are also overwhelmed/falling apart (probably for similar reasons), so many patients cannot be discharged. I'll say it again - it all makes sense, if avoiding Covid is the absolute number 1 priority, and if "letting it rip" would have made things worse than they are now.
    - gadders 4y ago
      >>The biggest difficulty has been the Covid policies put into place, both inside and outside hospitals. Not that they were followed particularly well. My dad was in hospital for unrelated reasons, caught COVID and died within 3 days.