6 ms·

Ask HN: Why does the US and Russia still cooperate on space?

9 points by sshah1983 4y ago

I noticed that with the SpaceX Crew 5 that there is a cosmonaut from Roscosmos in the crew. I’m genuinely wondering how the US can be in a proxy war with Russia yet still cooperate on space.

hindsightbias 4y ago
ISS is uninhabitable w/o the Russian modules. And lest those forget, Cosmos carried every astronaut to ISS in the last decade because the US had nothing.
- Huh1337 4y ago
  The US had nothing because the Russians were available, not the other way around. The US would've prolonged the Space Shuttle program if it wasn't for the cheaper Russian services.
superchroma 4y ago
Because countries don't always act on principle but almost always try and do things that will benefit them politically or strategically. There is nothing to be gained in a political or strategic spectrum by unravelling the space co-operation relationship. Putin + Rogozin already saber rattled on the topic to signal things to the Russian public, and Putin's key problem is his faltering war. The actions of astronauts are not meaningful. The same is true from the US perspective, except this way they can demonstrate an ongoing commitment to stability, co-operation and science. You may as well ask why not declare all Russians in the US as persona-non-grata and deport them?
LinuxBender 4y ago
Your question played out in the movie 2010 The Forgotten Odyssey [1] There are more scenes of them starting to get along despite the US/RU governments being hostile to one another. I can only hope the movie got it right. [1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faasJLVq634 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faasJLVq634
chasil 4y ago
There are contracts in place between the parties, and required maintenance on the modules of the station from both sides. Not sure where that ends, and there have been rumors. https://www.grid.news/story/science/2022/07/26/russia-says-its-leaving-the-international-space-station-again-this-time-might-be-different/ https://www.grid.news/story/science/2022/07/26/russia-says-i...
wmf 4y ago
The US has been subsidizing Roscosmos for a while. It wouldn't look great if Russia pulled out of the ISS. Also, I thought I read something about not wanting to lay off rocket scientists and have them go looking for work in Iran or North Korea.
bell-cot 4y ago
Outside of the moralized "Santa Claus" worldview that is fed to children, and simplistic propaganda/click-bait/news for the masses, international relations are always complex, highly compartmentalized, and subject to tight "current rules of engagement" control in each little area. That helps keep things calm, predictable, & controlled. And provides thousands of tiny "carrots & sticks" levers for leaders to fiddle with, while having to think about maximizing their nation's advantage in each of many little areas. Vs. the obvious dangers of a relationship state space where "at peace" and "total war" only had a few intermediate states between them.
- xg15 4y ago
  In principle yes, but the current situation is still exceptional. There used to be a variety of areas of cooperation, e.g. in science projects, between russia and the EU states. This was kept up even after the annexation of Crimea on the same basis as you describe. However, after the invasion started, much of it has been shut down.
  - bell-cot 4y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo-Soyuz#Historical_background https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo-Soyuz#Historical_backgr... The Apollo-Soyuz mission was conceived, approved by top-level leadership in both the U.S. and U.S.S.R., and mostly planned while the U.S. military (not just local proxy forces) was still heavily and directly engaged in the Vietnam War.
anotherrandom 4y ago
Science is bigger than politics and war. The US and Russia still worked together in the space area during the cold war in some ways, despite the two nations being a hair away from wiping each other off the face of the earth
hulitu 4y ago
Business is business. War is a racket.

9 points by sshah1983 4y ago

I noticed that with the SpaceX Crew 5 that there is a cosmonaut from Roscosmos in the crew. I’m genuinely wondering how the US can be in a proxy war with Russia yet still cooperate on space.

hindsightbias 4y ago

ISS is uninhabitable w/o the Russian modules. And lest those forget, Cosmos carried every astronaut to ISS in the last decade because the US had nothing.

Huh1337 4y ago
The US had nothing because the Russians were available, not the other way around. The US would've prolonged the Space Shuttle program if it wasn't for the cheaper Russian services.

superchroma 4y ago

Because countries don't always act on principle but almost always try and do things that will benefit them politically or strategically. There is nothing to be gained in a political or strategic spectrum by unravelling the space co-operation relationship. Putin + Rogozin already saber rattled on the topic to signal things to the Russian public, and Putin's key problem is his faltering war. The actions of astronauts are not meaningful. The same is true from the US perspective, except this way they can demonstrate an ongoing commitment to stability, co-operation and science. You may as well ask why not declare all Russians in the US as persona-non-grata and deport them?

LinuxBender 4y ago

Your question played out in the movie 2010 The Forgotten Odyssey [1] There are more scenes of them starting to get along despite the US/RU governments being hostile to one another. I can only hope the movie got it right. [1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faasJLVq634 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faasJLVq634

chasil 4y ago

There are contracts in place between the parties, and required maintenance on the modules of the station from both sides. Not sure where that ends, and there have been rumors. https://www.grid.news/story/science/2022/07/26/russia-says-its-leaving-the-international-space-station-again-this-time-might-be-different/ https://www.grid.news/story/science/2022/07/26/russia-says-i...

wmf 4y ago

The US has been subsidizing Roscosmos for a while. It wouldn't look great if Russia pulled out of the ISS. Also, I thought I read something about not wanting to lay off rocket scientists and have them go looking for work in Iran or North Korea.

bell-cot 4y ago

Outside of the moralized "Santa Claus" worldview that is fed to children, and simplistic propaganda/click-bait/news for the masses, international relations are always complex, highly compartmentalized, and subject to tight "current rules of engagement" control in each little area. That helps keep things calm, predictable, & controlled. And provides thousands of tiny "carrots & sticks" levers for leaders to fiddle with, while having to think about maximizing their nation's advantage in each of many little areas. Vs. the obvious dangers of a relationship state space where "at peace" and "total war" only had a few intermediate states between them.

xg15 4y ago
In principle yes, but the current situation is still exceptional. There used to be a variety of areas of cooperation, e.g. in science projects, between russia and the EU states. This was kept up even after the annexation of Crimea on the same basis as you describe. However, after the invasion started, much of it has been shut down.
- bell-cot 4y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo-Soyuz#Historical_background https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo-Soyuz#Historical_backgr... The Apollo-Soyuz mission was conceived, approved by top-level leadership in both the U.S. and U.S.S.R., and mostly planned while the U.S. military (not just local proxy forces) was still heavily and directly engaged in the Vietnam War.

anotherrandom 4y ago

Science is bigger than politics and war. The US and Russia still worked together in the space area during the cold war in some ways, despite the two nations being a hair away from wiping each other off the face of the earth

hulitu 4y ago

Business is business. War is a racket.