6 ms·

America has _spent_ its oil buffer. It’s important to note the difference between a intentional use of an asset vs an unintentional loss of an asset.

smitty1e 4y ago
If a legal voter, register your feedback on 08Nov.
- ransom1538 4y ago
  roger
tomohawk 4y ago
- patrickthebold 4y ago
  That number seems high. Do you have a source or was it made up?
  - tomohawk 4y ago
    If anything, its low. Why? Well seeing things like this all the time: https://youtu.be/zea7nkfwTlk?t=14 https://youtu.be/zea7nkfwTlk?t=14 The sibling comment has a link to the poll.
    - somehnguy 4y ago
      I don’t think so, first time I’m hearing about anything like that.
      - thepasswordis 4y ago
        This is the first time your hearing that people want him to take a cognitive test? It comes up in almost every one of the (very rare) times he talks to the press. I guess that means the strategy is working. That’s kind of frightening to be honest.
        somehnguy 4y ago
        Their strategy? Whose strategy? Sounds overly dramatic.
        thepasswordis 4y ago
        I’m curious if you just don’t follow political news? The Biden campaign, and subsequently administration’s policy has been extremely limited press availability. Biden has for most of his political career been a known gaff machine; he is a compulsive liar, and will essentially make up stories on the spot which are false. He’s been doing this since the 1980s. I don’t mean this to sound like a partisan attack, and I know it sounds like that to a non political news junkie. Before you make that assumption just please google it. However in the last few years this has gotten extremely bad to the point where many even within his own party have been calling his mental faculty into question. Anyway, the fact you didn’t know this seems to indicate that the stately of restricting his interactions with the public is working.
        sangnoir 4y ago
        Just for comparison: how many press interviews/Q&As has Biden had as president, and how many had Trump done at the the same point in his term?
        thepasswordis 4y ago
        Trump did about twice as many in his first year: https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/10/politics/biden-fewer-news-conferences-trump/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/10/politics/biden-fewer-news-con... Bidens refusal to engage with the press has been a constant frustration: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/jan/19/joe-biden-media-reporters-press-conference https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/jan/19/joe-biden-me... Honestly I can’t even remember the last time he had press availability. Was it right after the Afghanistan disaster? He does give pretty frequent “remarks” where he’ll post some prepared speech that he reads, but that’s usually it. That’s not what I mean. And honestly: I just don’t get where you’re going with this. Bidens mental decline isn’t even a partisan thing at this point is it? Even his own part seems to be indicating they don’t think he could handle another campaign. (We should stop this convo though since it’s just going into politics crap now)
  - jackmott42 4y ago
    It is a survey by https://mclaughlinonline.com/ https://mclaughlinonline.com/ They are clearly hyper partisan, but being charitable that should be fine, we just need to see what exactly the survey methodology is, I can't find it. Wonder why. Or its just obviously nonsense and we can ignore the crazy person?
    - rjzzleep 4y ago
      It's a pointless strawman anyway. He's clearly not the one making the decisions, so it doesn't matter if he's sane or not. A big chunk of his cabinet is equal to Obama's as well. And before you come in with "but Trump did X". Yes, Trump was an idiot as well. Different people can be morons at the same time.
- forgetfreeman 4y ago
  Gas prices go up, everyone gets mad. Dude adds supply to try to lower input prices, everyone gets mad. Conclusion: some folks were born mad and are gonna stay that way regardless.
twothamendment 4y ago
Excellent point. I lost my savings to a hot tub. Should I start a go fund me to recover it?
- aliqot 4y ago
  Is this a new spin on the 'lost my seed phrase in a boating accident' line?
starkd 4y ago
The SPR was set up as an emergency reserve. Not to manipulate the market price, which is only a temporary reprieve anyway. As soon as its exhausted and the supply issue is not addressed, we will likely be in the same boat as before without the cushion in case of a true national security emergency.
- kshacker 4y ago
  If done right, I don't see what's wrong with it. A dozen weeks back, oil was 120, now it is less than 80. We should be able to fill it back and make money while doing it. We did the same thing saving GM more than a dozen years back.
- jtc331 4y ago
  It's worse than that: once we start refilling it we bring back all of the demand that releasing oil from the SPR kicked into the future. It follows that if either 1.) demand drops or 2.) supply increases the refilling will create exactly the same problem in the future that releasing oil from the SPR was supposed to solve.
  - sangnoir 4y ago
    > It's worse than that: once we start refilling it we bring back all of the demand that releasing oil from the SPR kicked into the future. Translating this into HNese, your argument suggests that disk drive caching shouldn't work. The answer is you can fill your reserves at a much lower rate than you empty them, taking advantage of many small windows.
  - matthewdgreen 4y ago
    It will set a floor on oil prices, keeping them from going as low as they otherwise would have. Some have argued that this is a good thing, since it will help to stabilize the "boom/bust" nature of the industry -- guaranteeing that oil producers continue to invest in expanding supply.
- matthewdgreen 4y ago
  The SPR was created during an era when the US was an oil importer, fundamentally dependent on foreign supply. That’s no longer the case, thanks largely to the shale industry. So the national security calculus is completely different: instead the SPR is mainly an economic tool designed to buffer our economy against global price shocks during times of foreign turmoil, which is exactly the use-case it was just put to when Russia invaded Ukraine and global prices spiked. It should be refilled now, absolutely. But it is not a matter of national security anymore.
jimbob45 4y ago
To what end? The EU is no closer to oil independence and the Ukraine War looks no closer to ending with Russia’s mobilization. There’s an election coming up in a little over a month for a president’s party who is historically unpopular. Everyone in this thread assures me that they hadn’t even considered the possibility that the SPR was used to buy votes, even though it looks like that’s the only tangible outcome of this since no strategic goals are being met. Perhaps we got a good deal on the open market. Even if so - to what end? Temporarily depressed gas prices have yielded no significant strategic victories. Once prices rise again during the winter, we’ll be back to square one without the SPR.
- legutierr 4y ago
  Russia's actions have shown that it is not a reliable partner, and the "cheap" energy it sells actually comes with a very high political and national security cost. As a result, most European countries now know that they must realign their energy policies and economic relationships. This kind of re-alignment takes time. By opening up the strategic reserve, Biden has given Europe more time than they otherwise would have had. Hopefully, it will be enough.
  - landemva 4y ago
    Western Europe has known this for decades and did not care. Germany used the past decade to decommision nuclear power and coal power. This was not a mistake and US taxpayer oil reserves should not be used to bail them out because they knew what they were doing.
    - legutierr 4y ago
      Although it does benefit Europe, it also benefits the United States for Europe to finally turn away from Russia. Germany's prior willingness to engage with Russia may have been purposeful on Germany's part, but it was against the interests of the United States. The United States is not "bailing them out", but is instead making it economically possible for Europeans to align themselves with our own national security interests. The alternative is for Europe to abandon the fight in Ukraine. This is something that the US taxpayer should be willing to pay to avoid.
josephcsible 4y ago
Maybe "squandered" would be a better choice of words then. Anyway, the point is that there wasn't an actual oil shortage; prices were just high enough that it was making the government look bad. Releasing the oil only served to temporarily and artificially drop prices.

smitty1e 4y ago

If a legal voter, register your feedback on 08Nov.

ransom1538 4y ago
roger

tomohawk 4y ago

patrickthebold 4y ago
That number seems high. Do you have a source or was it made up?
- tomohawk 4y ago
  If anything, its low. Why? Well seeing things like this all the time: https://youtu.be/zea7nkfwTlk?t=14 https://youtu.be/zea7nkfwTlk?t=14 The sibling comment has a link to the poll.
  - somehnguy 4y ago
    I don’t think so, first time I’m hearing about anything like that.
    - thepasswordis 4y ago
      This is the first time your hearing that people want him to take a cognitive test? It comes up in almost every one of the (very rare) times he talks to the press. I guess that means the strategy is working. That’s kind of frightening to be honest.
      - somehnguy 4y ago
        Their strategy? Whose strategy? Sounds overly dramatic.
        thepasswordis 4y ago
        I’m curious if you just don’t follow political news? The Biden campaign, and subsequently administration’s policy has been extremely limited press availability. Biden has for most of his political career been a known gaff machine; he is a compulsive liar, and will essentially make up stories on the spot which are false. He’s been doing this since the 1980s. I don’t mean this to sound like a partisan attack, and I know it sounds like that to a non political news junkie. Before you make that assumption just please google it. However in the last few years this has gotten extremely bad to the point where many even within his own party have been calling his mental faculty into question. Anyway, the fact you didn’t know this seems to indicate that the stately of restricting his interactions with the public is working.
        sangnoir 4y ago
        Just for comparison: how many press interviews/Q&As has Biden had as president, and how many had Trump done at the the same point in his term?
        thepasswordis 4y ago
        Trump did about twice as many in his first year: https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/10/politics/biden-fewer-news-conferences-trump/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/10/politics/biden-fewer-news-con... Bidens refusal to engage with the press has been a constant frustration: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/jan/19/joe-biden-media-reporters-press-conference https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/jan/19/joe-biden-me... Honestly I can’t even remember the last time he had press availability. Was it right after the Afghanistan disaster? He does give pretty frequent “remarks” where he’ll post some prepared speech that he reads, but that’s usually it. That’s not what I mean. And honestly: I just don’t get where you’re going with this. Bidens mental decline isn’t even a partisan thing at this point is it? Even his own part seems to be indicating they don’t think he could handle another campaign. (We should stop this convo though since it’s just going into politics crap now)
- jackmott42 4y ago
  It is a survey by https://mclaughlinonline.com/ https://mclaughlinonline.com/ They are clearly hyper partisan, but being charitable that should be fine, we just need to see what exactly the survey methodology is, I can't find it. Wonder why. Or its just obviously nonsense and we can ignore the crazy person?
  - rjzzleep 4y ago
    It's a pointless strawman anyway. He's clearly not the one making the decisions, so it doesn't matter if he's sane or not. A big chunk of his cabinet is equal to Obama's as well. And before you come in with "but Trump did X". Yes, Trump was an idiot as well. Different people can be morons at the same time.
forgetfreeman 4y ago
Gas prices go up, everyone gets mad. Dude adds supply to try to lower input prices, everyone gets mad. Conclusion: some folks were born mad and are gonna stay that way regardless.

twothamendment 4y ago

Excellent point. I lost my savings to a hot tub. Should I start a go fund me to recover it?

aliqot 4y ago
Is this a new spin on the 'lost my seed phrase in a boating accident' line?

starkd 4y ago

The SPR was set up as an emergency reserve. Not to manipulate the market price, which is only a temporary reprieve anyway. As soon as its exhausted and the supply issue is not addressed, we will likely be in the same boat as before without the cushion in case of a true national security emergency.

kshacker 4y ago
If done right, I don't see what's wrong with it. A dozen weeks back, oil was 120, now it is less than 80. We should be able to fill it back and make money while doing it. We did the same thing saving GM more than a dozen years back.
jtc331 4y ago
It's worse than that: once we start refilling it we bring back all of the demand that releasing oil from the SPR kicked into the future. It follows that if either 1.) demand drops or 2.) supply increases the refilling will create exactly the same problem in the future that releasing oil from the SPR was supposed to solve.
- sangnoir 4y ago
  > It's worse than that: once we start refilling it we bring back all of the demand that releasing oil from the SPR kicked into the future. Translating this into HNese, your argument suggests that disk drive caching shouldn't work. The answer is you can fill your reserves at a much lower rate than you empty them, taking advantage of many small windows.
- matthewdgreen 4y ago
  It will set a floor on oil prices, keeping them from going as low as they otherwise would have. Some have argued that this is a good thing, since it will help to stabilize the "boom/bust" nature of the industry -- guaranteeing that oil producers continue to invest in expanding supply.
matthewdgreen 4y ago
The SPR was created during an era when the US was an oil importer, fundamentally dependent on foreign supply. That’s no longer the case, thanks largely to the shale industry. So the national security calculus is completely different: instead the SPR is mainly an economic tool designed to buffer our economy against global price shocks during times of foreign turmoil, which is exactly the use-case it was just put to when Russia invaded Ukraine and global prices spiked. It should be refilled now, absolutely. But it is not a matter of national security anymore.

jimbob45 4y ago

To what end? The EU is no closer to oil independence and the Ukraine War looks no closer to ending with Russia’s mobilization. There’s an election coming up in a little over a month for a president’s party who is historically unpopular. Everyone in this thread assures me that they hadn’t even considered the possibility that the SPR was used to buy votes, even though it looks like that’s the only tangible outcome of this since no strategic goals are being met. Perhaps we got a good deal on the open market. Even if so - to what end? Temporarily depressed gas prices have yielded no significant strategic victories. Once prices rise again during the winter, we’ll be back to square one without the SPR.

legutierr 4y ago
Russia's actions have shown that it is not a reliable partner, and the "cheap" energy it sells actually comes with a very high political and national security cost. As a result, most European countries now know that they must realign their energy policies and economic relationships. This kind of re-alignment takes time. By opening up the strategic reserve, Biden has given Europe more time than they otherwise would have had. Hopefully, it will be enough.
- landemva 4y ago
  Western Europe has known this for decades and did not care. Germany used the past decade to decommision nuclear power and coal power. This was not a mistake and US taxpayer oil reserves should not be used to bail them out because they knew what they were doing.
  - legutierr 4y ago
    Although it does benefit Europe, it also benefits the United States for Europe to finally turn away from Russia. Germany's prior willingness to engage with Russia may have been purposeful on Germany's part, but it was against the interests of the United States. The United States is not "bailing them out", but is instead making it economically possible for Europeans to align themselves with our own national security interests. The alternative is for Europe to abandon the fight in Ukraine. This is something that the US taxpayer should be willing to pay to avoid.

josephcsible 4y ago

Maybe "squandered" would be a better choice of words then. Anyway, the point is that there wasn't an actual oil shortage; prices were just high enough that it was making the government look bad. Releasing the oil only served to temporarily and artificially drop prices.