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Arjuna and Krishna fought before Mahabharat when Krishna's brother Balarama ordered Krishna to do so.

KrishnaShripad 4y ago
No they did not. Just one of many incorrect translations by Western Indologists. Note that I am being very polite in calling it "incorrect translations" as it borders malice. In fact, in the Mahabharata itself, while Lord Krishna addresses the dead Parikshit (when he was killed by the Brahmastra while being in the womb of Uttara) he states that there has never been a conflict/misunderstanding between himself and Arjuna (also called Vijaya). Forget a fight. He then grants life to Parikshit by saying the following words (Sanskrit transliteration and English translation from Kisar Mohan Ganguli's Mahabharata): yathA me dayito dharmo brAhmaNAshcha visheShataH | abhimanyoH suto jAto mRRito jIvatvayaM tathA || 20|| yathAhaM nAbhijAnAmi vijayena kadAchana | virodhaM tena satyena mRRito jIvatvayaM shishuH || 21|| yathA satyaM cha dharmashcha mayi nityaM pratiShThitau | tathA mRRitaH shishurayaM jIvatAmabhimanyujaH || 22|| "Having sat up, the daughter of the king of the Matsyas, summoning her patience, joined her hands in reverence and touched the earth with her head for saluting Kesava of eyes like the petals of the lotus. That foremost of beings, hearing those heart-rending lamentations of hers, touched water and withdrew the (force of the) Brahma-weapon. That hero of unfading glory, belonging to the race of the Dasarhas, promised to give the child his life. Then he of pure soul, said these words in the hearing of the whole universe,--'O Uttara, I never utter an untruth. My words will prove true. I shall revive this child in the presence of all creatures. Never before have I uttered an untruth even in jest. Never have I turned back from battle. (By the merit of those acts) let this child revive! As righteousness is dear to me, as Brahmanas are specially dear to me, (by the merit of that disposition of mine) let Abhimanyu's son, who is born dead, revive! Never hath a misunderstanding arisen between me and my friend Vijaya. Let this dead child revive by that truth! As truth and righteousness are always established in me, let this dead child of Abhimanyu revive (by the merit of these)! As Kansa and Kesi have been righteously slain by me, let this child revive today by that truth!' After these words were uttered by Vasudeva, that child, O foremost one of Bharata's race, became animate and began gradually to move, O monarch." [1]: https://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m14/m14069.htm https://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m14/m14069.htm
- lioeters 4y ago
  User name checks out. :) Joking aside, thank you for the correction. > Never hath a misunderstanding arisen between me and my friend Vijaya. I did learn that there's a 19th-century play called Gayopakhyanam, where they almost fight. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gayopakhyanam https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gayopakhyanam
  - KrishnaShripad 4y ago
    > User name checks out. :) Joking aside, thank you for the correction. Haha no issues! > I did learn that there's a 19th-century play called Gayopakhyanam, where they almost fight. Yes there are many Sthala Puranas that have their own variations/additions to the main storyline. Which is why we stick to the oldest manuscripts that are available as we do not know if/when distortions happened as this story spans multiple thousands of years. We have sadly also lost scriptures to invasions. Especially with the burning of Nalanda University (by Muhammad Bakhtiyar Khalji: by some estimates, 9 million scriptures were destroyed) and Takshashila University (by Persians, Greeks, Parthians, Hephthalites, Shakas and Kushanas) though Alexander and future Greeks revived the University again in partnership with Chandragupta Maurya. Hepthalites were most destructive of the lot. Both these Universities contained tomes of Dharmic scriptures/manuscripts (both Buddhist and Hindu). Nalanda supposedly burned for 3 months.
    - lioeters 4y ago
      Fascinating to learn about Nalanda and Takshashila University. About the latter ("considered to be one of the earliest universities in the world") and the revival of the university - I recently started reading a book called, The Shape of Ancient Thought: Comparative Studies in Greek and Indian Philosophies. I'm interested in learning about the influence of Buddhism on Greek (and later European) philosophy. I know almost nothing about the history of India, so it's been a fun educational journey. The name of Chandragupta Maurya I hadn't heard before, but I see he is an important historical figure, the grandfather of Ashoka. And they're said to be from the Shakya family from which Gautama Buddha descended. I've enjoyed your other thoughtful comments in this thread, even the controversial one criticising the "deliberately mistranslated" scriptures. I don't know the truth of the matter, but perhaps the translators simply lacked understanding? And I can see that some words are impossible to translate, with so much meaning lost or wrongly transformed in the process. Anyway, thanks for sharing your knowledge and perspective. Especially this comment ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32929993 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32929993 ) was very thought-provoking, one of my favorite comments ever on this forum.

No they did not. Just one of many incorrect translations by Western Indologists. Note that I am being very polite in calling it "incorrect translations" as it borders malice. In fact, in the Mahabharata itself, while Lord Krishna addresses the dead Parikshit (when he was killed by the Brahmastra while being in the womb of Uttara) he states that there has never been a conflict/misunderstanding between himself and Arjuna (also called Vijaya). Forget a fight. He then grants life to Parikshit by saying the following words (Sanskrit transliteration and English translation from Kisar Mohan Ganguli's Mahabharata): yathA me dayito dharmo brAhmaNAshcha visheShataH | abhimanyoH suto jAto mRRito jIvatvayaM tathA || 20|| yathAhaM nAbhijAnAmi vijayena kadAchana | virodhaM tena satyena mRRito jIvatvayaM shishuH || 21|| yathA satyaM cha dharmashcha mayi nityaM pratiShThitau | tathA mRRitaH shishurayaM jIvatAmabhimanyujaH || 22|| "Having sat up, the daughter of the king of the Matsyas, summoning her patience, joined her hands in reverence and touched the earth with her head for saluting Kesava of eyes like the petals of the lotus. That foremost of beings, hearing those heart-rending lamentations of hers, touched water and withdrew the (force of the) Brahma-weapon. That hero of unfading glory, belonging to the race of the Dasarhas, promised to give the child his life. Then he of pure soul, said these words in the hearing of the whole universe,--'O Uttara, I never utter an untruth. My words will prove true. I shall revive this child in the presence of all creatures. Never before have I uttered an untruth even in jest. Never have I turned back from battle. (By the merit of those acts) let this child revive! As righteousness is dear to me, as Brahmanas are specially dear to me, (by the merit of that disposition of mine) let Abhimanyu's son, who is born dead, revive! Never hath a misunderstanding arisen between me and my friend Vijaya. Let this dead child revive by that truth! As truth and righteousness are always established in me, let this dead child of Abhimanyu revive (by the merit of these)! As Kansa and Kesi have been righteously slain by me, let this child revive today by that truth!' After these words were uttered by Vasudeva, that child, O foremost one of Bharata's race, became animate and began gradually to move, O monarch." [1]: https://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m14/m14069.htm https://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m14/m14069.htm

lioeters 4y ago
User name checks out. :) Joking aside, thank you for the correction. > Never hath a misunderstanding arisen between me and my friend Vijaya. I did learn that there's a 19th-century play called Gayopakhyanam, where they almost fight. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gayopakhyanam https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gayopakhyanam
- KrishnaShripad 4y ago
  > User name checks out. :) Joking aside, thank you for the correction. Haha no issues! > I did learn that there's a 19th-century play called Gayopakhyanam, where they almost fight. Yes there are many Sthala Puranas that have their own variations/additions to the main storyline. Which is why we stick to the oldest manuscripts that are available as we do not know if/when distortions happened as this story spans multiple thousands of years. We have sadly also lost scriptures to invasions. Especially with the burning of Nalanda University (by Muhammad Bakhtiyar Khalji: by some estimates, 9 million scriptures were destroyed) and Takshashila University (by Persians, Greeks, Parthians, Hephthalites, Shakas and Kushanas) though Alexander and future Greeks revived the University again in partnership with Chandragupta Maurya. Hepthalites were most destructive of the lot. Both these Universities contained tomes of Dharmic scriptures/manuscripts (both Buddhist and Hindu). Nalanda supposedly burned for 3 months.
  - lioeters 4y ago
    Fascinating to learn about Nalanda and Takshashila University. About the latter ("considered to be one of the earliest universities in the world") and the revival of the university - I recently started reading a book called, The Shape of Ancient Thought: Comparative Studies in Greek and Indian Philosophies. I'm interested in learning about the influence of Buddhism on Greek (and later European) philosophy. I know almost nothing about the history of India, so it's been a fun educational journey. The name of Chandragupta Maurya I hadn't heard before, but I see he is an important historical figure, the grandfather of Ashoka. And they're said to be from the Shakya family from which Gautama Buddha descended. I've enjoyed your other thoughtful comments in this thread, even the controversial one criticising the "deliberately mistranslated" scriptures. I don't know the truth of the matter, but perhaps the translators simply lacked understanding? And I can see that some words are impossible to translate, with so much meaning lost or wrongly transformed in the process. Anyway, thanks for sharing your knowledge and perspective. Especially this comment ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32929993 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32929993 ) was very thought-provoking, one of my favorite comments ever on this forum.