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Even if they hadn't strategically picked that model of old car for maximum crunch factor anyone without a seat belt may as well be on a motorcycle. Edit: Delet

Even if they hadn't strategically picked that model of old car for maximum crunch factor anyone without a seat belt may as well be on a motorcycle. Edit: Deleted the rest of the comment, It is not worthwhile to have a nuanced discussion about the merits of the various safety improvements with this community.

yellowapple 4y ago
A seatbelt wouldn't have helped much; maybe the Bel-Air driver would've been flung around a bit less, but one would still be crushed within what's effectively a giant crumple zone.
- TylerE 4y ago
  And that’s if you weren’t already dead from having your chest caved in by a non-collapsible steering column (Remember, a seat belt in this era meant a lap belt only.
dieselgate 4y ago
The article states this was to “celebrate” the 50th anniversary of the test institute in 2009. I agree with your point about controlling for variables but it does not seem to be the goal of the video.
cjensen 4y ago
If you step through the video with the "," and "." keys, you'll see that the steering wheel ends up in contact with the drivers seatback. A seatbelt that holds the driver in place doesn't help if there is no safe space for a body.
- Aloha 4y ago
  The 59 GM Full Sizes with an X frame did particularly poorly in overlap crashes - it would have performed better with a full head on - or a slimly later one with a permitter frame.
  - Doxin 4y ago
    Most cars do particularly poorly in overlap crashes. It's why those get tested specifically. it's harder to absorb than a full overlap crash.
    - bbarn 4y ago
      It's also a more likely type of crash to occur. Not many cases where one would square off the hit straight on, I'd imagine rather most cases at least one occupant is trying to avoid the crash by moving to the right.
41b696ef1113 4y ago
>...by not doing a offset test or picking literally anything but a GM X-frame car (notoriously bad at overlap crashed, even by 1950s standards) So you are mad that they used a street legal car of the day to show that things have improved? A fun historical fact I just discovered, "Ford offered seat belts as an option in 1955. These were not popular, with only 2% of Ford buyers choosing to pay for seatbelts in 1956" [0]. Which reads to me that many 1959 drivers would have been unlikely to have or use a seatbelt. [0] : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seat_belt https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seat_belt
- userbinator 4y ago
  I think the point is that an X-frame is extremely weak, so they showed one of the worst cars in 1959 to be in a crash with; many other cars of the time had full perimeter frames: https://www.curbsideclassic.com/automotive-histories/automotive-history-an-x-ray-look-at-gms-x-frame-1957-1970/ https://www.curbsideclassic.com/automotive-histories/automot...
  - encoderer 4y ago
    It’s a useful piece of context but it’s not really like the x-frame was niche and cherry-picked for this example. They sold a lot of these things (the platform, not just bel-airs)
dragonstyle 4y ago
The 64 sedan had 3 point lap belts and a roll cage reinforcing the passenger compartment. Not really a particularly compelling example of a typical ‘64 sedan…
- sokoloff 4y ago
  Neither my 1965 coupe or 1966 convertible Mustangs came from the factory with lap belts. Both have subsequently been modified to have (2 point) lap belts, which still feel sketchy as hell to me.
  - toast0 4y ago
    Have you used aftermarket 3 point belt? A family member's Ranchero had them; the shoulder restraint slid into the lap belt near the buckle, but if you moved it would slip out. I can't imagine that being helpful in a crash, just a tethered weight to fly around.
    - sokoloff 4y ago
      I fitted the lap belts to my 'vert, which was already very much not-stock when I bought it, so I didn't feel bad making even more modifications (hydraulic clutch, modern T5Z trans, electronic ignition). There isn't a good, above-the-shoulder mounting point for the shoulder belt, unless you weld in a cage or mount one to an aftermarket seat. The coupe is a close to correct C-code, which I've driven under 1000 miles in the last decade, so I've decided to leave it with period-correct 1965 belts that a prior owner installed rather than modify the B-pillar as my exposure isn't very high on that car due to very low annual miles.
  - lmm 4y ago
    There's very little evidence for more complex belts having safety advantages over lap belts, FWIW.
    - sokoloff 4y ago
      Really? That’s surprising given the guarantee of a face impact in a hard collision (and these two cars having non-collapsing steering shafts).

yellowapple 4y ago

A seatbelt wouldn't have helped much; maybe the Bel-Air driver would've been flung around a bit less, but one would still be crushed within what's effectively a giant crumple zone.

TylerE 4y ago
And that’s if you weren’t already dead from having your chest caved in by a non-collapsible steering column (Remember, a seat belt in this era meant a lap belt only.

dieselgate 4y ago

The article states this was to “celebrate” the 50th anniversary of the test institute in 2009. I agree with your point about controlling for variables but it does not seem to be the goal of the video.

cjensen 4y ago

If you step through the video with the "," and "." keys, you'll see that the steering wheel ends up in contact with the drivers seatback. A seatbelt that holds the driver in place doesn't help if there is no safe space for a body.

Aloha 4y ago
The 59 GM Full Sizes with an X frame did particularly poorly in overlap crashes - it would have performed better with a full head on - or a slimly later one with a permitter frame.
- Doxin 4y ago
  Most cars do particularly poorly in overlap crashes. It's why those get tested specifically. it's harder to absorb than a full overlap crash.
  - bbarn 4y ago
    It's also a more likely type of crash to occur. Not many cases where one would square off the hit straight on, I'd imagine rather most cases at least one occupant is trying to avoid the crash by moving to the right.

41b696ef1113 4y ago

>...by not doing a offset test or picking literally anything but a GM X-frame car (notoriously bad at overlap crashed, even by 1950s standards) So you are mad that they used a street legal car of the day to show that things have improved? A fun historical fact I just discovered, "Ford offered seat belts as an option in 1955. These were not popular, with only 2% of Ford buyers choosing to pay for seatbelts in 1956" [0]. Which reads to me that many 1959 drivers would have been unlikely to have or use a seatbelt. [0] : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seat_belt https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seat_belt

userbinator 4y ago
I think the point is that an X-frame is extremely weak, so they showed one of the worst cars in 1959 to be in a crash with; many other cars of the time had full perimeter frames: https://www.curbsideclassic.com/automotive-histories/automotive-history-an-x-ray-look-at-gms-x-frame-1957-1970/ https://www.curbsideclassic.com/automotive-histories/automot...
- encoderer 4y ago
  It’s a useful piece of context but it’s not really like the x-frame was niche and cherry-picked for this example. They sold a lot of these things (the platform, not just bel-airs)

dragonstyle 4y ago

The 64 sedan had 3 point lap belts and a roll cage reinforcing the passenger compartment. Not really a particularly compelling example of a typical ‘64 sedan…

sokoloff 4y ago
Neither my 1965 coupe or 1966 convertible Mustangs came from the factory with lap belts. Both have subsequently been modified to have (2 point) lap belts, which still feel sketchy as hell to me.
- toast0 4y ago
  Have you used aftermarket 3 point belt? A family member's Ranchero had them; the shoulder restraint slid into the lap belt near the buckle, but if you moved it would slip out. I can't imagine that being helpful in a crash, just a tethered weight to fly around.
  - sokoloff 4y ago
    I fitted the lap belts to my 'vert, which was already very much not-stock when I bought it, so I didn't feel bad making even more modifications (hydraulic clutch, modern T5Z trans, electronic ignition). There isn't a good, above-the-shoulder mounting point for the shoulder belt, unless you weld in a cage or mount one to an aftermarket seat. The coupe is a close to correct C-code, which I've driven under 1000 miles in the last decade, so I've decided to leave it with period-correct 1965 belts that a prior owner installed rather than modify the B-pillar as my exposure isn't very high on that car due to very low annual miles.
- lmm 4y ago
  There's very little evidence for more complex belts having safety advantages over lap belts, FWIW.
  - sokoloff 4y ago
    Really? That’s surprising given the guarantee of a face impact in a hard collision (and these two cars having non-collapsing steering shafts).