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This really feels like a non-story to me. It seems obvious that Tesla would have to create special builds or settings for crash testing. Their crash avoidance

by HEHENE 4y ago

This really feels like a non-story to me. It seems obvious that Tesla would have to create special builds or settings for crash testing. Their crash avoidance features (automatic braking, steering correction, etc) can't be disabled by the user and it's rather hard to perform, say, a frontal crash test if the car refuses to crash.

i_am_jl 4y ago
This is my feeling as well, but to play devil's advocate; what settings could Tesla tweak to cheat on a crash test? I'm struggling to think what software tweaks Tesla could be implementing during a test that would game the results of the crash. Airbag/seatbelt tensioner timings? Maybe lowering the threshold for their deployment? Maybe something sort of software-triggered fuse to make the battery safe?
- giraffe_lady 4y ago
  Things like that, yes. It probably takes a certain amount of domain expertise to know exactly what, and how. But it seems fairly reasonable to guess that certain settings that are normally generalized to work appropriately well across a wide range of crashes can also be optimized for certain cases if you know in advance which cases are being tested for. We see this sort of optimization-to-the-test being possible in most other domains so why not this one as well.
  - defterGoose 4y ago
    > We see this sort of optimization-to-the-test being possible in most other domains so why not this one as well. Because then you're doing junk science (and possibly active harm) in all domains in the name of improving economic metrics.
- Sohcahtoa82 4y ago
  Another commenter [0] highlighted the answer to this. Crash testing isn't just crashing into barriers, it also tests automatic emergency braking. For crash testing, they could give a software build that's more sensitive to seeing pedestrians and bicycles, but not use that build in customer cars because it's prone to false positives. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32837954 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32837954
simion314 4y ago
> It seems obvious that Tesla would have to create special builds or settings for crash testing. Isn't obvious that you turn off the "crash avoidance" stuff if you want to test the car body only? Sure maybe the regular driver can't turn it off but I am expecting a Tesla mechanic can turn it off, rather then 10 engineers creating new software builds, deploy them on the cars and then ensure that when is the time to test the "Crash avoidence" you use the car with the correct build.
- ratg13 4y ago
  And what is stopping you from believing that this code is how their mechanics disable it?
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
rasz 4y ago
Crash testing is not performed by driving cars into things. Cars are on rails pulled by special machine https://auto.howstuffworks.com/car-driving-safety/accidents-hazardous-conditions/crash-test.htm https://auto.howstuffworks.com/car-driving-safety/accidents-... "A pulley, mounted in a track, pulls the car down the runway. The car hits the barrier"
- ungamedplayer 4y ago
  The moose test is not on rails.

by HEHENE 4y ago

i_am_jl 4y ago

This is my feeling as well, but to play devil's advocate; what settings could Tesla tweak to cheat on a crash test? I'm struggling to think what software tweaks Tesla could be implementing during a test that would game the results of the crash. Airbag/seatbelt tensioner timings? Maybe lowering the threshold for their deployment? Maybe something sort of software-triggered fuse to make the battery safe?

giraffe_lady 4y ago
Things like that, yes. It probably takes a certain amount of domain expertise to know exactly what, and how. But it seems fairly reasonable to guess that certain settings that are normally generalized to work appropriately well across a wide range of crashes can also be optimized for certain cases if you know in advance which cases are being tested for. We see this sort of optimization-to-the-test being possible in most other domains so why not this one as well.
- defterGoose 4y ago
  > We see this sort of optimization-to-the-test being possible in most other domains so why not this one as well. Because then you're doing junk science (and possibly active harm) in all domains in the name of improving economic metrics.
Sohcahtoa82 4y ago
Another commenter [0] highlighted the answer to this. Crash testing isn't just crashing into barriers, it also tests automatic emergency braking. For crash testing, they could give a software build that's more sensitive to seeing pedestrians and bicycles, but not use that build in customer cars because it's prone to false positives. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32837954 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32837954

simion314 4y ago

> It seems obvious that Tesla would have to create special builds or settings for crash testing. Isn't obvious that you turn off the "crash avoidance" stuff if you want to test the car body only? Sure maybe the regular driver can't turn it off but I am expecting a Tesla mechanic can turn it off, rather then 10 engineers creating new software builds, deploy them on the cars and then ensure that when is the time to test the "Crash avoidence" you use the car with the correct build.

ratg13 4y ago
And what is stopping you from believing that this code is how their mechanics disable it?

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

rasz 4y ago

Crash testing is not performed by driving cars into things. Cars are on rails pulled by special machine https://auto.howstuffworks.com/car-driving-safety/accidents-hazardous-conditions/crash-test.htm https://auto.howstuffworks.com/car-driving-safety/accidents-... "A pulley, mounted in a track, pulls the car down the runway. The car hits the barrier"

ungamedplayer 4y ago
The moose test is not on rails.