6 ms·

> Excess deaths are widely considered to be “from Covid” Considered by whom? The funny thing is that there was no non-covid excess mortality in 2020, that stat

by dapf 4y ago

> Excess deaths are widely considered to be “from Covid” Considered by whom? The funny thing is that there was no non-covid excess mortality in 2020, that stated on 2021, which is the same time the v{censored} started. > Unvaccinated people are dying at a much higher rate. Again, where did you see that?

yojo 4y ago
There are definitely excess deaths reported starting in 2020. Started in March. See the chart at the bottom of this page: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm And here’s the total death rate by vaccination status: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/united-states-rates-of-covid-19-deaths-by-vaccination-status?country=~All+ages https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/united-states-rates-of-co... I assume you’ll switch to some CDC conspiracy nonsense at this point, in which case we are done here.
- User23 4y ago
  Do you mean “Weekly number of deaths (from all causes)?” If so that is such a junk chart I don’t see how it supports either claim. The X axis label is absolute garbage. It’s completely unclear where the new year begins. A naive reading (counting back from 2022) has the excess deaths starting in 2019!
- mizzack 4y ago
  You're conflating total excess deaths for _all_ vax statuses (in your first link) against COVID death rates by vax status (with your second link). Neither is what the GP is talking about.
jat850 4y ago
Insurance companies have already begun publishing reports indicating that excess mortality rates are inversely related to vaccine adoption (i.e. higher excess mortality in states with lower vaccination rates).
- ibeckermayer 4y ago
  Source?
  - jat850 4y ago
    Apologies, as it's a PDF. I don't have another version of it available. https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/22275411-group-life-covid-19-mortality-03-2022-report https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/22275411-group-life-...
    - ibeckermayer 4y ago
      Thanks. Very noisy data, so I'd say far from conclusive, particularly given the confounding variables that differ between states. Still, the best attempt I've seen to actually look into this issue. Countries like the UK have national vaccination databases. They could easily put this issue to rest with a study of excess deaths by vaccination status, controlling for age/health/etc., except they conspicuously have chosen not to.
      - jat850 4y ago
        It's definitely not a scientific study of the data, but those will follow in years to come by respective national and international bodies I assume.
        manwe150 4y ago
        Starts on page 33, for any one else curious at looking. Quite interesting to see what appears to be their hazard ratio relative to the state population: their members have a much higher excess death rate, and their members show minimal correlation to the vaccine rate of the state they are in—presumably reflecting that older, sicker, or more health-conscious people opt in more often to buying health care plans?
PaulDavisThe1st 4y ago
> Again, where did you see that? https://doh.wa.gov/sites/default/files/2022-02/421-010-CasesInNotFullyVaccinated.pdf https://doh.wa.gov/sites/default/files/2022-02/421-010-Cases...

by dapf 4y ago

yojo 4y ago

There are definitely excess deaths reported starting in 2020. Started in March. See the chart at the bottom of this page: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm And here’s the total death rate by vaccination status: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/united-states-rates-of-covid-19-deaths-by-vaccination-status?country=~All+ages https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/united-states-rates-of-co... I assume you’ll switch to some CDC conspiracy nonsense at this point, in which case we are done here.

User23 4y ago
Do you mean “Weekly number of deaths (from all causes)?” If so that is such a junk chart I don’t see how it supports either claim. The X axis label is absolute garbage. It’s completely unclear where the new year begins. A naive reading (counting back from 2022) has the excess deaths starting in 2019!
mizzack 4y ago
You're conflating total excess deaths for _all_ vax statuses (in your first link) against COVID death rates by vax status (with your second link). Neither is what the GP is talking about.

jat850 4y ago

Insurance companies have already begun publishing reports indicating that excess mortality rates are inversely related to vaccine adoption (i.e. higher excess mortality in states with lower vaccination rates).

ibeckermayer 4y ago
Source?
- jat850 4y ago
  Apologies, as it's a PDF. I don't have another version of it available. https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/22275411-group-life-covid-19-mortality-03-2022-report https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/22275411-group-life-...
  - ibeckermayer 4y ago
    Thanks. Very noisy data, so I'd say far from conclusive, particularly given the confounding variables that differ between states. Still, the best attempt I've seen to actually look into this issue. Countries like the UK have national vaccination databases. They could easily put this issue to rest with a study of excess deaths by vaccination status, controlling for age/health/etc., except they conspicuously have chosen not to.
    - jat850 4y ago
      It's definitely not a scientific study of the data, but those will follow in years to come by respective national and international bodies I assume.
      - manwe150 4y ago
        Starts on page 33, for any one else curious at looking. Quite interesting to see what appears to be their hazard ratio relative to the state population: their members have a much higher excess death rate, and their members show minimal correlation to the vaccine rate of the state they are in—presumably reflecting that older, sicker, or more health-conscious people opt in more often to buying health care plans?

PaulDavisThe1st 4y ago

> Again, where did you see that? https://doh.wa.gov/sites/default/files/2022-02/421-010-CasesInNotFullyVaccinated.pdf https://doh.wa.gov/sites/default/files/2022-02/421-010-Cases...