6 ms·

It only seems bonkers to you because you're so wildly off the mark. Finland currently has over 4GW of installed wind power capacity, but there have been not jus

by eMSF 4y ago

It only seems bonkers to you because you're so wildly off the mark. Finland currently has over 4GW of installed wind power capacity, but there have been not just hours but entire days where wind power production has been less than one hundredth of that -- last Thursday's problems were aggravated by such a situation. 9GW of installed capacity will absolutely not guarantee 1GW at all times -- not even close.

simfoo 4y ago
few things that help here: - interconnect with other regions (someone always has wind or sun or both) - spread turbines across the entire country - build as much PV as possible (there is plenty of space on roofs) - combine renewables with hydro storage - (in a few places) generate hydrogen and store for times where wind & sun are not enough. Doesn't have to be pure hydrogen, converting to methane or better yet ammonia)
- doikor 4y ago
  > - build as much PV as possible (there is plenty of space on roofs) There is effectively 0 sun during the winter in Finland. Just go to https://www.fingrid.fi/en/electricity-market-information/solar-power/ https://www.fingrid.fi/en/electricity-market-information/sol... and look at last year Decemenber or January. > - interconnect with other regions (someone always has wind or sun or both) Until they don't because the country 10x your size with massive heavy industry on the other side of that country you want to import from wants to buy all of it.
- eMSF 4y ago
  Not as much as you'd think. While someone may always have wind or sun, at times that someone is unfeasibly far from Northern Europe. (Low wind conditions in all of Nordics, and to some extent even all over Europe are quite possible.) PV produces absolutely nothing when electricity is most used and absolutely necessary (midwinter). Hydro capacity in Finland is at its maximum potential and even now cannot make up for times when wind is producing close to nothing. Also, all these workarounds cost money -- some of them, lots of it. For TVO, Olkiluoto 3 costs roughly 5B euros for 1.6GW of nuclear.
  - euroderf 4y ago
    Those midwinter spells where the sun is shining but it's minus 10 or 20 Celsius and there's no wind.
- _-david-_ 4y ago
  Maybe all of Finland can be connected, but can you really expect enough wind and solar with just Finland? Doesn't large chunks of Finland have pretty long nights for a decent period of time? If you are going to interconnect with solar and wind you have to spread it across multiple countries. Of course we are seeing how well that worked out with gas and Russia right now.
- albertopv 4y ago
  So you should add those costs to renwable energy bc wind/pv alone capabilities don't match nuclear, maybe costs would bw not much different, but nuclear run always if build near sea, even when there's no wind or sun

by eMSF 4y ago

simfoo 4y ago

few things that help here: - interconnect with other regions (someone always has wind or sun or both) - spread turbines across the entire country - build as much PV as possible (there is plenty of space on roofs) - combine renewables with hydro storage - (in a few places) generate hydrogen and store for times where wind & sun are not enough. Doesn't have to be pure hydrogen, converting to methane or better yet ammonia)

doikor 4y ago
> - build as much PV as possible (there is plenty of space on roofs) There is effectively 0 sun during the winter in Finland. Just go to https://www.fingrid.fi/en/electricity-market-information/solar-power/ https://www.fingrid.fi/en/electricity-market-information/sol... and look at last year Decemenber or January. > - interconnect with other regions (someone always has wind or sun or both) Until they don't because the country 10x your size with massive heavy industry on the other side of that country you want to import from wants to buy all of it.
eMSF 4y ago
Not as much as you'd think. While someone may always have wind or sun, at times that someone is unfeasibly far from Northern Europe. (Low wind conditions in all of Nordics, and to some extent even all over Europe are quite possible.) PV produces absolutely nothing when electricity is most used and absolutely necessary (midwinter). Hydro capacity in Finland is at its maximum potential and even now cannot make up for times when wind is producing close to nothing. Also, all these workarounds cost money -- some of them, lots of it. For TVO, Olkiluoto 3 costs roughly 5B euros for 1.6GW of nuclear.
- euroderf 4y ago
  Those midwinter spells where the sun is shining but it's minus 10 or 20 Celsius and there's no wind.
_-david-_ 4y ago
Maybe all of Finland can be connected, but can you really expect enough wind and solar with just Finland? Doesn't large chunks of Finland have pretty long nights for a decent period of time? If you are going to interconnect with solar and wind you have to spread it across multiple countries. Of course we are seeing how well that worked out with gas and Russia right now.
albertopv 4y ago
So you should add those costs to renwable energy bc wind/pv alone capabilities don't match nuclear, maybe costs would bw not much different, but nuclear run always if build near sea, even when there's no wind or sun