6 ms·

And we're shutting down nuclear power plants? How about we do what France did in the 70s-80s and solve this problem once and for all.

ZeroGravitas 4y ago
You realise there's more to GHG than just electricity generation, right? I mean it's a big, low hanging fruit because renewables are so cheap now, but even after getting that done we have transport and agriculture and land use chemical feedstocks and old leaking mines and wells and on and on. Plenty to do.
- bluGill 4y ago
  Though if you take care of car based transport (replace with EVs and/or electric trains), and electric you have done the vast majority. The rest of just a long trail of small things that don't really add up to much together.
  - ZeroGravitas 4y ago
    Thats only about a third of emissions: https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/sources-greenhouse-gas-emissions https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/sources-greenhouse-gas-emis...
    - bluGill 4y ago
      i stand corrected. though with we make electric cheap enough most of the others are easy to switch, and that is already happening.
- H_Pylori 4y ago
- MikeCapone 4y ago
  That's why we're also electrifying transportation, should push for heat pumps in buildings, etc, but yeah, there's a lot to do. Not dealing with electricity doesn't help the rest, though.
ctrlmeta 4y ago
What did they do in the 1970s? Care to share more about it for people like me who do not know what exactly happened? All I could find was this - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_change_in_France https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_change_in_France but this shows improvements beginning at 1990s and later.
- m2fkxy 4y ago
  massive construction of NPPs, with the last big share of works taking place in the 90s. the large majority of them are still in use today. average NPP age in France is ~30 years. this is what allows France to produce electricity at ~50-100 grams of CO2 eq. per kWh, a performance that is only rivaled by countries with also nuclear- and/or hydro-heavy grids. for comparison, Germany sits between ~200-600 gCO2eq./kWh (last year's average). Germany's grid is renewable-heavy, but also intermittent, relying on the use of GHG-intensive backups (coal, gas). [1] [1] ENTSOE data aggregated by @BotElectricity, https://twitter.com/BotElectricity/status/1345362624222015489 https://twitter.com/BotElectricity/status/134536262422201548...
jcynix 4y ago
More than half of the French nuclear power plants are shut down due to maintenance right now, cf. https://m.dw.com/en/french-nuclear-plants-break-a-sweat-over-heat-wave/a-62806646 https://m.dw.com/en/french-nuclear-plants-break-a-sweat-over... And they have problems with excessive heat in the summer, because they cannot be properly cooled when water temperatures rise. Doesn't look like a future solution but more of an future problem to me.
- Manuel_D 4y ago
  > And they have problems with excessive heat in the summer, because they cannot be properly cooled when water temperatures rise. Incorrect, the can still be cooled but rivers must be kept below 28 degrees [1]. Because apparently the fish in this one stretch of river are more important than global climate change. Perhaps the takeaway is that we should reconsider the acceptable impact on local environment given the impact on global environment. Similar deal with America lithium mines held up behind environmental review. 1. https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/warming-rivers-threaten-frances-already-tight-power-supply-2022-07-15/ https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/warming-rivers-threa...
  - nosianu 4y ago
    Incorrect. It is not only the temperature. Did you miss the extreme lack of rainfall in much of Western Europe in the summer, including in France? (Low river levels to affect French nuclear power generation) https://www.reuters.com/article/us-france-electricity-idUSKCN1UT06M https://www.reuters.com/article/us-france-electricity-idUSKC... Which is part of why they get too warm, there is less water in them so the impact of the plants is higher. More generally, "France drought: Parched towns left short of drinking water": https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-62436468 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-62436468 "France's Going Through Its Most Severe Drought Ever, PM Says" https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-08-05/france-s-going-through-its-most-severe-drought-ever-pm-says https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-08-05/france-s-... You are hand-waving away quite a few environmental issues too.
    - 4y ago
bluGill 4y ago
Or build more wind and solar. Already Des Moines gets 80% of its power from wind, and the state is building more all the time. CA is doing some solar steps, but it is taking a lot longer (on a much larger population, so I'm not sure how their progress compares). Most states are not doing much. Europe is also making some steps, but they could do more. The key to all this is starting ASAP and building constantly. Iowa has been building wind turbines at a rate of about 2/day (a bit over 500 per year) for many years now.
- MikeCapone 4y ago
  Wind & solar are great for what they are, but they aren't dispatchable, and we're better using battery capacity for EVs rather than the grid.

ZeroGravitas 4y ago

You realise there's more to GHG than just electricity generation, right? I mean it's a big, low hanging fruit because renewables are so cheap now, but even after getting that done we have transport and agriculture and land use chemical feedstocks and old leaking mines and wells and on and on. Plenty to do.

bluGill 4y ago
Though if you take care of car based transport (replace with EVs and/or electric trains), and electric you have done the vast majority. The rest of just a long trail of small things that don't really add up to much together.
- ZeroGravitas 4y ago
  Thats only about a third of emissions: https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/sources-greenhouse-gas-emissions https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/sources-greenhouse-gas-emis...
  - bluGill 4y ago
    i stand corrected. though with we make electric cheap enough most of the others are easy to switch, and that is already happening.
H_Pylori 4y ago
MikeCapone 4y ago
That's why we're also electrifying transportation, should push for heat pumps in buildings, etc, but yeah, there's a lot to do. Not dealing with electricity doesn't help the rest, though.

ctrlmeta 4y ago

What did they do in the 1970s? Care to share more about it for people like me who do not know what exactly happened? All I could find was this - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_change_in_France https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_change_in_France but this shows improvements beginning at 1990s and later.

m2fkxy 4y ago
massive construction of NPPs, with the last big share of works taking place in the 90s. the large majority of them are still in use today. average NPP age in France is ~30 years. this is what allows France to produce electricity at ~50-100 grams of CO2 eq. per kWh, a performance that is only rivaled by countries with also nuclear- and/or hydro-heavy grids. for comparison, Germany sits between ~200-600 gCO2eq./kWh (last year's average). Germany's grid is renewable-heavy, but also intermittent, relying on the use of GHG-intensive backups (coal, gas). [1] [1] ENTSOE data aggregated by @BotElectricity, https://twitter.com/BotElectricity/status/1345362624222015489 https://twitter.com/BotElectricity/status/134536262422201548...

jcynix 4y ago

More than half of the French nuclear power plants are shut down due to maintenance right now, cf. https://m.dw.com/en/french-nuclear-plants-break-a-sweat-over-heat-wave/a-62806646 https://m.dw.com/en/french-nuclear-plants-break-a-sweat-over... And they have problems with excessive heat in the summer, because they cannot be properly cooled when water temperatures rise. Doesn't look like a future solution but more of an future problem to me.

Manuel_D 4y ago
> And they have problems with excessive heat in the summer, because they cannot be properly cooled when water temperatures rise. Incorrect, the can still be cooled but rivers must be kept below 28 degrees [1]. Because apparently the fish in this one stretch of river are more important than global climate change. Perhaps the takeaway is that we should reconsider the acceptable impact on local environment given the impact on global environment. Similar deal with America lithium mines held up behind environmental review. 1. https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/warming-rivers-threaten-frances-already-tight-power-supply-2022-07-15/ https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/warming-rivers-threa...
- nosianu 4y ago
  Incorrect. It is not only the temperature. Did you miss the extreme lack of rainfall in much of Western Europe in the summer, including in France? (Low river levels to affect French nuclear power generation) https://www.reuters.com/article/us-france-electricity-idUSKCN1UT06M https://www.reuters.com/article/us-france-electricity-idUSKC... Which is part of why they get too warm, there is less water in them so the impact of the plants is higher. More generally, "France drought: Parched towns left short of drinking water": https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-62436468 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-62436468 "France's Going Through Its Most Severe Drought Ever, PM Says" https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-08-05/france-s-going-through-its-most-severe-drought-ever-pm-says https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-08-05/france-s-... You are hand-waving away quite a few environmental issues too.
  - 4y ago

bluGill 4y ago

Or build more wind and solar. Already Des Moines gets 80% of its power from wind, and the state is building more all the time. CA is doing some solar steps, but it is taking a lot longer (on a much larger population, so I'm not sure how their progress compares). Most states are not doing much. Europe is also making some steps, but they could do more. The key to all this is starting ASAP and building constantly. Iowa has been building wind turbines at a rate of about 2/day (a bit over 500 per year) for many years now.

MikeCapone 4y ago
Wind & solar are great for what they are, but they aren't dispatchable, and we're better using battery capacity for EVs rather than the grid.