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Ask HN: Is there a Hacker News for writers?
HackerNews is a community of skilled professionals engaging politely with each other. It’s great for entrepreneurs and technical people.
Is there somewhere similar for writers? Especially fiction writers?
- gpmcadam 4y agoNot really for sharing links, but for discussion there's https://writing.stackexchange.com https://writing.stackexchange.com And for general use of the English language, there's: https://english.stackexchange.com https://english.stackexchange.com
- shagie 4y agoAs a fork of the community from Stack Exchange, there's also https://writing.codidact.com https://writing.codidact.com
- Noumenon72 4y agoWhy did they split? Why do they exist? I don't see a link explaining why.
- nottorp 4y agoNot involved in either community but I somehow don't think stackexchange's "make the answer ready to copy paste and don't link to external content" ethos applies well to creative writing.
- drewzero1 4y agoI know I'm not the only one, but I sometimes get a bit distracted on SE/SO from the "hot network questions" sidebar and go down rabbit holes of reading answers to questions from different fields. People come up with a lot of interesting, thoughtful answers, especially in worldbuilding.
- nottorp 4y agoOh yeah, the stackoverflow sidebars are as much as an extreme sport as opening random pages on Wikipedia and following the references.
- InitialLastName 4y agoThe different Stack Exchange communities have very different ethos, and thus their answers have some very different vibes. In particular, the ones related to creative writing (especially https://worldbuilding.stackexchange.com/ https://worldbuilding.stackexchange.com/ ) are full of speculative and creative conversations that, while still constructed around the Question/Answers paradigm are not quite so draconianly managed as the technical Stack Exchanges.
- shagie 4y agoCommunities occasionally fork... I participate on a slack channel that was a fork of the community on one of the chat rooms/channels on SE. The codadict split was largely in part of (and I am intentionally being very vague here as if you dig it gets ugly and that doesn't need to be discussed here) a disagreement on the additional policies that moderators need to follow, religious laws ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_on_Shabbat https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_on_Shabbat ), SE management at the time, and the broad SE community consensus. To put it lightly, it is a mess. If you want to find an external source, Jon Ericson's one sided retrospective is a starting point. It resulted in one of the more popular moderators leaving, joining a site/project in development and having a pull on the related communities to shift there.
- PuppyTailWags 4y agoWhat kind of fiction writing do you do? Scribophile and Absolute Write are more general communities. If you're into science fiction & fantasy, consider the Dream Foundry. Are you published somewhere & can you join a writer's association?
- seydor 4y agoThere is a hacker news for everything, it is called reddit
- mellosouls 4y agoSee the other comments wrt dang. There may be a few well-curated/moderated subreddits but the noise to signal ratio generally seems to be considerably higher on Reddit generally, though there are undoubtedly diamonds there as well.
- seydor 4y agoconsider that dang gets paid for that ,while reddit moderators are not (outside some politics subs)
- muzani 4y agoThe mainstram writing groups are terrible. The average writing ability on many of the writing groups are actually lower than the rest of reddit. I think it attracts hobbyists who refuse to take any advice. It's like how some grandmas refuse to use timers when cooking pasta. These groups are full of people who are always challenging the norm. They spend more time criticizing Stephen King and R.A. Salvatore's writing over making any meaningful output.
- krapp 4y agoPeople who can write are too busy writing to spend time commenting on Reddit.
- muzani 4y agoI don't buy into this whole "competent people are too busy for X". There's always time to socialize and mentor others. And even the best writers get writer's block for weeks. I believe the main purpose for these groups is emotional support to becoming a professional. Which can often be in contrast to wanting to improve. So they can be very hostile to constructive criticism. r/screenwriting is probably an exception. I think people who know about screenwriting are already very capable writers. More talk about how to solve specific work problems, or request career advice past 10 years. Less on trying to get your foot into the industry. It's still no HN, closer to r/androiddev. In HN you have people talking about quitting FAANG. I believe in a top tier screenwriting group, you'll have more discussions on how to survive Hollywood, things like salaries at Disney, and such.
- ArtWomb 4y agohttps://www.reddit.com/r/Screenwriting/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Screenwriting/ was awesome. Max Landis would literally pass on good spec scripts posted on the internet by randos to his hollywood agent back in the day, and regale the hordes with making of anecdotes from "American Werewolf in London" ;)
- monetus 4y agoThe other commenter mentioning reddit is probably right that it is closer to HN. All my writer friends use vocal.media though if you want to check that out
- chrsig 4y agoI really hope HN is able to supply a few communities. My wife is a writer/editor, so I'd love to share one with her. I showed her HN, and the level of discourse that happens here, and she was really surprised at the level of discourse that happens here. If nothing else, maybe someone with some motivation sees an opportunity to create such a community. May or may not involve cloning dang.
- Multicomp 4y agoYeah I think without dang, HN would be a very different place. The tone and guidelines enforcement is a result of the HN culture, the HN culture comes as a direct result of the moderation feedback dang and other HN mods have consistently given. While I would love to join a community (I used to use writing.com a ton) of HN but for fiction writers not startup owners plus us hangers on, I don't know if that can be done without a good moderation team.
- Evenjos 4y agoCodex https://forums.codexwriters.com/ https://forums.codexwriters.com/ is very actively moderated. There are interesting quality discussions there.
- dont__panic 4y agoI have quite a few friends who don't work in tech who regularly read and even comment on HN simply because the discourse is worth it. I'd invest a few dollars into the "clone dang" kickstarter. At the very least he should consider writing a book on fostering communities through tasteful moderation.
- kradeelav 4y agoDefinitely would count myself as a not-tech-industry person (graphic design manager instead with a passing interest in linux) who pulls up HN every morning. :) Far more interesting topics on here at it's worst than most news sites at their best.
- 4y ago
- mguarino 4y agoHave you found any slack groups that offer this?
- epilys 4y agoIf you are willing to kickstart one, there's this generic hacker news clone I maintain where you can create a writing community. Make a "Writing" category of post tags and I will put it in the public category list :) https://sic.pm https://sic.pm
- campbellmorgan 4y agoI have discussed this idea with friends who are writers / artists. Call me a cynic, but while many writers / artists aspire to collective shared knowledge, the reality of both the writing and art market is that unique knowledge is an important differentiator and an asset to their careers. If you do find a fascinating, rare 19th century travel journal in some online archive the last thing you are going to do is share it with others like you until you're sure that you're not going to use it as material yourself. The exception to this being other writers completed work (ie long-form articles, books), but that probably doesn't need a focus on writers / artists per se and a more general "aesthete" HN might work better...
- sodality2 4y agoIs this any different for those in the typical HN fields - software engineering, IT, etc?
- golergka 4y agoI've never saw a software engineer hoard some knowledge for a competitive edge. I guess it's blue/red ocean market difference multiplied by the fact that average engineer can feel pretty successful with his career, whereas an average writer is anything but.
- elcapitan 4y agoEven in writing, the right combination of execution and being in the right place at the right time is everything, and ideas/knowledge/concepts are like sand at the beach. But yeah like all art "markets" it's massively unevenly distributed, so you'll find way more people who are cynical about it.
- bot41 4y ago> I've never saw a software engineer hoard some knowledge for a competitive edge. Not even in work?
- soneca 4y ago
- mab122 4y agoI am not a writer or anyone but I have read quite a few questions from https://worldbuilding.stackexchange.com/ https://worldbuilding.stackexchange.com/
- thiht 4y agoI was going to suggest the same. World building is fun to read and might be interesting to post on if you’re a writer.
- blockwriter 4y agoIt's difficult because there is not a lot of news or pressing issues in fiction. Contemporary fiction is not robust enough for it to be the basis of an aspiring writer's study. Canonical works are. This is distinct from coding, where new methods, and news about developments in technology, are directly applicable to the best work being done. You would need to create a sense of urgency about literary criticism, but this requires an abundance of reading on the part of the user base.
- PuppyTailWags 4y ago> there is not a lot of news or pressing issues in fiction Are you sure about this? One of the biggest publishing houses is being sued by the DOJ to stop a merger. Publishing houses have recently started splitting advances into thirds and quarters over 2-3 years. There's an unprecedented quitting of agents, leaving many authors afloat with no rep. Barnes & Noble recently and suddenly changed how they market hardcover childrens literature which will likely sink debut authors. This was all subjects within the last 2/3 weeks btw.
- svnt 4y agoWriters are adjacent to journalists. They do not want for news, and realistically their perspective is over represented in media currently, unlike software developers.
- PuppyTailWags 4y agoWhat do you mean writers do not want for news? Are you sure? Are you aware of Publishers Marketplace?
- svnt 4y agoI mean there are people with arts degrees who went through adjacent if not identical accredited programs and early careers, now working professionally in journalism and writing fiction. The broad perspective, if not the specific niche of the perspective, is well-represented. This is functionally not the case with engineering schools. Are there any experienced CS or CpE majors working as journalists for major mainstream media organizations? There may be, I honestly don’t know, but they are at least rather hard to find. Hacker news exists and has value in part because what we had before were predominantly press releases and wikis run by often a single person. Writers with very few exceptions didn’t have the depth of practical experience necessary to provide insights and context, while technology needing commentary was rapidly emerging. A lot of the early would-be peers such as slashdot and ars got absorbed by media companies and now they are not the same. It helps that HN does not have to make money, and from what I have seen is extremely well moderated.
- purim 4y agoTaking this further why aren't there more communities like HN? What makes this place so special and obnoxious at the same time?
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- k3ylebe3nzle 4y agoBecause we are all online 24.7. thats it, we are here, everyone else is out in the real world.
- whoooooo123 4y agoHN is heavily moderated, and it has a nerdy subject matter that selects for a certain type of audience. Those both help, but I think the biggest thing that makes HN so great is its peculiar business model. I don't know if YC keep this site running purely out of love or if it's a calculated ploy to make money, but if HN is profitable for YC then it's in a very indirect and hard-to-quantify way - e.g. YC startups using HN as a recruitment platform. Dang doesn't have money-hungry VCs breathing down his neck telling him to maximize "engagement" - the day that happens will be the day HN devolves into an unreadable, unusable pile of garbage, like what happened to Reddit. There aren't many communities like HN because there aren't many organizations that have the resources to run a site like this without running it into the ground because they have dollar signs in their eyes. The few that do exist are probably small forums focused on a super-niche topic or hobby, but if I knew of them I wouldn't post them here because I wouldn't want to spoil the secret.
- sinecure 4y agoModeration is such an interesting art. There is moderation like trimming a bonsai tree... the effort is to keep everything healthy and beautiful, but not to avert the nature of the plant, to embrace its natural growth... then there is moderation like on reddit, which is politically and advertising motivated to force the community into a given shape, like trimming hedgerows. Either step in line or get pruned. If anything HN feels like it has a lighter touch with moderation than most other places online, and I have never seen them outright censor certain political views or show any sort of favoritism towards any one company or group. I think much of that comes from having a small, passionate community that can manage the task of behaving and debating in good faith. If someone could figure out the method for crafting communities like HN for other interests... that person would be a treasure to the internet.
- greenie_beans 4y agotwitter. for real. a ton of writers engage with each other on twitter.
- swayvil 4y agoProbably something on Reddit. If you don't mind the evil.
- brudgers 4y agoI think, that to a first approximation, the HN-for-X is HN. The problem facing a dedicated HN-for-X site is that X-experts, spend most of their time doing X instead of talking about doing X with people-aspiring-to-do-X. I mean Steven King is mostly writing books and when he gives advice he scales it by writing it down (or having it video recorded).
- k3ylebe3nzle 4y agoI have been a part of and creating online communities for 20 years now and there is not going to be anything like HN for "normal people" anytime soon. The reason HN works is because we are all in the same area and somewhat experts (or trying to be). The problem is that NO OTHER community is online nearly 100% of the time. So there is no writer HN, no science HN, the only thing that comes close is Reddit or 4chan because those are kids, who are also online 24/7. Real people are in the real world, only techies and kids live online.
- alisonatwork 4y agoI am not a writer, although I know a few. The most interesting place I've encountered, and a place that almost inspired me to write myself, was the one and only sci-fi convention I ever attended. Note that it wasn't really a convention focused on TV/movie/comics fandom, although a few of those creators were on panels too. Mostly it was sci-fi and fantasy novelists discussing industry topics in panels, taking questions and hobnobbing with attendees between sessions. I'd definitely recommend trying to find a convention with a more writer-y focus, especially if you are interested in genre fiction.
- technofiend 4y agoThere's a genre-specific discord for litrpg and although it was originally geared towards readers many of the authors hang there. Verified authors get a tag and probably even their own channel, but I'm not sure about that since I'm not a verified author. The downside I see for authors is like HN it could prove a distraction, possibly even more so if the general public discovers it for all the usual reasons. It sounds like a great project for someone who wants to spend the time and energy moderating a forum, slack, discord or what have you. The issue will be gatekeeping "real" and aspiring authors from people who just want a way to @ their favorite author about something. It would potentially be a great place to get advice if people took the time to direct new writers. As an aside - the podcast Writing Excuses is a great place for new authors to find hours of advice from established authors in several different genres. The show regularly rotates in new guest authors, keeping the topics fresh despite being on their 15th season. Of course like any entrepreneur they have something to sell - their books and writing workshops - but for all that their advice is sincere and useful. https://writingexcuses.com https://writingexcuses.com And there is allegedly a discussion forum somewhere on the site although I've never sought it out.
- Bayart 4y agoIs it related to the litrpg sub-reddit ? I ended up there semi-randomly (reading far too many Chinese webnovels) and it's a pretty nice place for discovery, as a reader.
- asicsp 4y agoYou might enjoy https://old.reddit.com/r/ProgressionFantasy/ https://old.reddit.com/r/ProgressionFantasy/ too.
- wccrawford 4y agoOooh, interesting. Thanks! I think the few litrpg that I've enjoyed could also somewhat fall into the progression fantasy category. At least, the parts that I really enjoyed about them do.
- 4y ago
- freediver 4y agohttps://aldaily.com https://aldaily.com comes to mind
- boplicity 4y agoHacker news partially works because of the way the community is built; there are people here at all stages of their careers, which is unusual. (Anywhere from successful startup founders, to teenagers just interested in the topic.) A corrollary community of writers would be wonderful, though I do think it would likely require the backing of an institution parallel to Ycombinator. Fortunately, there are many organizations that offer community for writers; most major cities have writing centers such as Richard Hugo House in Seattle, or The Loft Literary Center in Minneapolis. If you're looking to connect with such a community, these types of places are wonderful resources, though they tend to be offline focused.
- germinalphrase 4y agoDo you happen to have any experience with The Loft?
- boplicity 4y agoWe interviewed one of their instructors for a teaching position, and were quite impressed with them. That's the limit of my experience.
- sinecure 4y agoI've spent decades exploring online communities (haven't we all?). From forums to 4chan, from Digg to reddit to hacker news. I would say that hacker news has one of the highest quality, most engaged and passionate user bases around... a rare feat. To replicate a place like this for other interests would be a dream. I think the recipe for a good, interests based community is limited moderation, small scale, and a non-profit orientation. Because even once great communities on reddit have been poisoned by their massive growth and ad driven leadership combined with heavy handed, political moderation. Oddly enough, I have found /lit/ on 4chan to be one of the best communities for discussing books and writing. They are more grounded and passionate than most of the other Chans and while you'll still find the occasional edgy post or nonsense, the censorship free and open community has some brilliant minds engaging there. Discord has potential, but the constant flow of information and the reliance on typically heavy handed moderation make it just a faster version of popular writing subreddits. I wish someone could make a cheap and easy shell to quickly make "hacker news" like clones that people could run for given interests, to create communities like this one geared towards other interests.
- swatcoder 4y agoThat’s interesting that you laud “limited moderation” while celebrating Hacker News. I think of HN as standing out for having more comprehensive guidelines than most communities, a user base that respects and voluntarily enforces those guidelines, and formal moderation that allows few exceptions to slip through. We’re lucky that they’re good guidelines and that we have a community that broadly appreciates them, but “limited” is not a term I’d use for the moderation here.
- sinecure 4y ago
- Normille 4y ago>I wish someone could make a cheap and easy shell to quickly make "hacker news" like clones that people could run for given interests, to create communities like this one geared towards other interests... It's already out there: http://arclanguage.org/ http://arclanguage.org/ or... https://github.com/arclanguage/anarki https://github.com/arclanguage/anarki >Anarki comes bundled with News, a Hacker News style app...
- Starlevel001 4y agoMost writing spaces are full of incompetent people who are terrible at what they do, give bad advice, blame everyone else for their problems, and have wildly incorrect opinions on topics that they aren't qualified for. In other words, most writing spaces are just like HN. Take your pick.
- felipelalli 4y agoPolitely? You were kind.
- dhosek 4y agoI’ve been relentlessly flogging a new site, https://litjunction.com/ https://litjunction.com/ based on the lobste.rs code inspired by hacker news. Not sure if this is what you’re looking for. (Invitation request link: https://litjunction.com/invitations/request https://litjunction.com/invitations/request )
- Evenjos 4y agoThere is Codex. https://forums.codexwriters.com/ https://forums.codexwriters.com/ It's for SFF writers, and it skews towards trad pub. There are (easy to meet) membership requirements: You need to have earned some money as an author, or have been published somewhere pro-ish. I've been a member for many years. It's a useful community.
- muzani 4y agoThe NaNoWriMo folk were really good at this 10 years ago, but I haven't visited that group in a while. There's also a really good erotica forum which I won't link in public here, but they have a complex application process. The people who get through are mostly respectful, incredibly intelligent and creative, and have quite a bit of ambition. They motivated me to start learning proper writing techniques like outlining and rhe whole Aristotle stuff. Also I find that screenwriting groups are very mature. The novelist groups tends to want fame and something else, but screenwriters are more interested in what makes a truly good story.
- nominusllc 4y ago> NaNoWriMo Stop giving things name like this.
- detaro 4y agoIt's been called that for more than 20 years, bit late to complain in this case.
- SleepilyLimping 4y agoI feel it's very difficult to find communities for writing (not fiction writing, but like, "writing for web" or "content writers") without it devolving into shilling or self-promo.
- t_mann 4y agoGreat question, would be great to have a general "HN for other professions" thread! One that I can share is econjobrumors.com, but I also have to strongly warn about it. It's a forum for econ PhD students and academics to discuss the academic job market, but unfortunately, due to its no-sign-up anonymous posting feature and looser moderation policy than HN, it's been taken over to some extent by right-wing trolls - it's even made the news at one point about how it might drive minorities and women out of the profession, that's how bad it was (is?). But last time I checked (a few years ago) it was still very active and even used by young academics from other disciplines (especially math) to discuss their job market, and I saw several "Is there an EJMR for Y?" posts, indicative that there were useful signals for people on the academic job market between all the noise.
- sdenton4 4y agoCheck out Metafilter, perhaps?
- ben30 4y agoI second that. I’m a member, full of insightful comments. I’ve joked in the past that it’s a social network for librarians. Check out the sub sites fan fare and ask for example.
- ryzvonusef 4y agoAs a slight tangent to your discussion, here are links to Brandon Sanderson's BYU lectures on creative writing[1], and other general writing advice[2] I like that these are not behind some sort of paywall like a "Masterclass" or something. He also runs an award winning podcast [3] since 2008, which brings forwards famous authors and gets them to share advice on writing. It's not quite the cozy one-on-one forum style discussion amongst peers that you were wishing for, but if OP is looking for some guidance. Btw, have you look at the screenwriter's subreddit [4]? I feel they have a much tighter focus on the "writing" aspect, than other general writing related subreddits or forums. ---- [1]: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLSH_xM-KC3Zv-79sVZTTj-YA6IAqh8qeQ https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLSH_xM-KC3Zv-79sVZTTj... [2]: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLSH_xM-KC3ZtjKTR2z8rPWxv1pP6bOVzZ https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLSH_xM-KC3ZtjKTR2z8rP... [3]: https://writingexcuses.com/ https://writingexcuses.com/ [4]: https://old.reddit.com/r/Screenwriting/ https://old.reddit.com/r/Screenwriting/
- tyronehed 4y ago