6 ms·

When was this done previously?

bobsmooth 4y ago
Check out the limitations ITAR places on exported electronics.
sandworm101 4y ago
In many (most?) manufacturing industries there is an upper limit on export product performance. If you make steel, there are a bunch of types/grades subject to limits related to their use in nuclear technology. If you make microphones there is a limit on those that might be used in sonar arrays. Certainly all manner of limits exist in aerospace. Even game consoles have been limited (Iran). This is not an unusual regulation.
- freeflight 4y ago
  > If you make steel, there are a bunch of types/grades subject to limits related to their use in nuclear technology. Assuming said steel is actually of the quality it's certified as [0] [0] https://asiatimes.com/2017/10/nuclear-tentacles-kobe-steel/ https://asiatimes.com/2017/10/nuclear-tentacles-kobe-steel/
zerohp 4y ago
You can go down the rabbit hole at federalregister.gov. Here's a couple places where they talk about it: https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-15/subtitle-B/chapter-VII/subchapter-C/part-743/section-743.2 https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-15/subtitle-B/chapter-VII... https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2006/04/24/06-3647/implementation-of-new-formula-for-calculating-computer-performance-adjusted-peak-performance-app-in https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2006/04/24/06-3647... You'll probably have to dig quite a bit to find the latest rules and regulations. These regulations go back to at least the Export Control Act of 1968. Every CPU/GPU maker would have a legal team that understands these rules.
- LionTamer 4y ago
  Hmm I’ll have to check that out, thanks for sharing
MarkSweep 4y ago
There are all kinds of things subject to export restrictions: https://www.bis.doc.gov/index.php/regulations/export-administration-regulations-ear https://www.bis.doc.gov/index.php/regulations/export-adminis... For example, high resolution analog to digital converters have restrictions. In the past strong cryptography even had restrictions: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Export_of_cryptography_from_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Export_of_cryptography_from_th... Even travel for US citizens was restricted. I have relatives who were in the semiconductor and aerospace industries during the 1980s. They were advised by the government to not attempt to travel to the Eastern Bloc. Some kinda related reading: https://academic.oup.com/dh/article-abstract/43/1/57/5068654?login=false https://academic.oup.com/dh/article-abstract/43/1/57/5068654...
- LionTamer 4y ago
  I knew about the previous cryptography restrictions, but I also knew that the Supreme Court overruled them by ruling (as I understand it) that “code is speech”. I’ll have to check out the other links though
  - tankenmate 4y ago
    This brings back memories of a t-shirt I had that had big red letters on it "Export Controlled" and an implementation of RSA in perl on it.
    - Theodores 4y ago
      #!/usr/local/bin/perl -s-- -export-a-crypto-sardine -RSA-6-line-PERL-fish '\~. __......--------~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~-------....____ \ ~.__---~';($k,$n)=@ARGV;$m=unpack(H.$w,$m."\0"x$w),$_=`echo "[o~~-._ \ ]s!16do$w 2+4Oi0$d*-^1[d2%Sa2/d0<X+d*La1=z\U$n%0]SX$k"[$m*]"\E[ ~. / ]s!szlXx++p"|dc`,s/^.|\W//g,print pack('H*',$_)while read(STDIN,$m," .' / .-~~--.._" +($w=2*$d-1+length($n||die"$0 [-d] k n\n")&~1)/2);' __..-~ ,/.~ ~~~~----........._______________________.......-----~~'
  - schoen 4y ago
Kadin 4y ago
Apple made a fairly big deal of the fact that the G5 processor, when they started putting it into their machines (or maybe it was when they went to dual G5s?), had just recently stopped being export-controlled by virtue of being classified as a "supercomputer". (What really happened was that the Feds revised the definition of "supercomputer", and suddenly the G5 configuration they were using didn't qualify anymore... it had nothing to do with anything Apple did, except perhaps lobbying for it so they could build computers in China.)
- geerlingguy 4y ago
  Close, but it was actually the G4 where they started doing that. They made a big deal about it in their commercials at the time: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OoxvLq0dFvw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OoxvLq0dFvw
spockz 4y ago
There was also a ban export of strong cryptography. So Java couldn’t use string ciphers and algorithms without adding some additional jar which basically just turned the `enableStrongEncryption` flag on. This isn’t necessary anymore but I don’t know what changed legally.
- LionTamer 4y ago
  I believe this is what changed legally: > One of EFF's first major legal victories was Bernstein v. Department of Justice, a landmark case that resulted in establishing code as speech and changed United States export regulations on encryption software, paving the way for international e-commerce https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2015/04/remembering-case-established-code-speech https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2015/04/remembering-case-estab...
- emiliosic 4y ago
  Let's not forget that these policies fostered the development of encryption in Canada, Australia and other countries (See SSLEay for example). So it ended up being counter-productive. The simplest way to stop competition is to subsidize a product. In this case, offer the tools openly.
robin_reala 4y ago
US tried to block PlayStation 2s from going to China as they were too powerful: https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/library/review/061399china-chips-review.html https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/library/review/0...
ezconnect 4y ago
Since the creation of the United States of America. One famous in the computer era is the banning of encryption algorithm.
semi-extrinsic 4y ago
The opposite was of course done when the US sold a ton of Xeon Phi accelerators to China when they built the Tianhe-2 supercomputer. My favourite conspiracy theory is that this was done deliberately by the US, since Xeon Phi was a large pile of steaming turd, so the Chinese wasted money on a machine with high theoretical FLOPS but crappy real world performance, and also wasted the time of their scientists and programmers who were porting code to a programming paradigm that went nowhere fast.
- hulitu 4y ago
  Intel processors were always a waste of money.

Check out the limitations ITAR places on exported electronics.

In many (most?) manufacturing industries there is an upper limit on export product performance. If you make steel, there are a bunch of types/grades subject to limits related to their use in nuclear technology. If you make microphones there is a limit on those that might be used in sonar arrays. Certainly all manner of limits exist in aerospace. Even game consoles have been limited (Iran). This is not an unusual regulation.

freeflight 4y ago
> If you make steel, there are a bunch of types/grades subject to limits related to their use in nuclear technology. Assuming said steel is actually of the quality it's certified as [0] [0] https://asiatimes.com/2017/10/nuclear-tentacles-kobe-steel/ https://asiatimes.com/2017/10/nuclear-tentacles-kobe-steel/

zerohp 4y ago

You can go down the rabbit hole at federalregister.gov. Here's a couple places where they talk about it: https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-15/subtitle-B/chapter-VII/subchapter-C/part-743/section-743.2 https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-15/subtitle-B/chapter-VII... https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2006/04/24/06-3647/implementation-of-new-formula-for-calculating-computer-performance-adjusted-peak-performance-app-in https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2006/04/24/06-3647... You'll probably have to dig quite a bit to find the latest rules and regulations. These regulations go back to at least the Export Control Act of 1968. Every CPU/GPU maker would have a legal team that understands these rules.

LionTamer 4y ago
Hmm I’ll have to check that out, thanks for sharing

MarkSweep 4y ago

There are all kinds of things subject to export restrictions: https://www.bis.doc.gov/index.php/regulations/export-administration-regulations-ear https://www.bis.doc.gov/index.php/regulations/export-adminis... For example, high resolution analog to digital converters have restrictions. In the past strong cryptography even had restrictions: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Export_of_cryptography_from_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Export_of_cryptography_from_th... Even travel for US citizens was restricted. I have relatives who were in the semiconductor and aerospace industries during the 1980s. They were advised by the government to not attempt to travel to the Eastern Bloc. Some kinda related reading: https://academic.oup.com/dh/article-abstract/43/1/57/5068654?login=false https://academic.oup.com/dh/article-abstract/43/1/57/5068654...

LionTamer 4y ago
I knew about the previous cryptography restrictions, but I also knew that the Supreme Court overruled them by ruling (as I understand it) that “code is speech”. I’ll have to check out the other links though
- tankenmate 4y ago
  This brings back memories of a t-shirt I had that had big red letters on it "Export Controlled" and an implementation of RSA in perl on it.
  - Theodores 4y ago
    #!/usr/local/bin/perl -s-- -export-a-crypto-sardine -RSA-6-line-PERL-fish '\~. __......--------~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~-------....____ \ ~.__---~';($k,$n)=@ARGV;$m=unpack(H.$w,$m."\0"x$w),$_=`echo "[o~~-._ \ ]s!16do$w 2+4Oi0$d*-^1[d2%Sa2/d0<X+d*La1=z\U$n%0]SX$k"[$m*]"\E[ ~. / ]s!szlXx++p"|dc`,s/^.|\W//g,print pack('H*',$_)while read(STDIN,$m," .' / .-~~--.._" +($w=2*$d-1+length($n||die"$0 [-d] k n\n")&~1)/2);' __..-~ ,/.~ ~~~~----........._______________________.......-----~~'
- schoen 4y ago

Kadin 4y ago

Apple made a fairly big deal of the fact that the G5 processor, when they started putting it into their machines (or maybe it was when they went to dual G5s?), had just recently stopped being export-controlled by virtue of being classified as a "supercomputer". (What really happened was that the Feds revised the definition of "supercomputer", and suddenly the G5 configuration they were using didn't qualify anymore... it had nothing to do with anything Apple did, except perhaps lobbying for it so they could build computers in China.)

geerlingguy 4y ago
Close, but it was actually the G4 where they started doing that. They made a big deal about it in their commercials at the time: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OoxvLq0dFvw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OoxvLq0dFvw

spockz 4y ago

There was also a ban export of strong cryptography. So Java couldn’t use string ciphers and algorithms without adding some additional jar which basically just turned the `enableStrongEncryption` flag on. This isn’t necessary anymore but I don’t know what changed legally.

LionTamer 4y ago
I believe this is what changed legally: > One of EFF's first major legal victories was Bernstein v. Department of Justice, a landmark case that resulted in establishing code as speech and changed United States export regulations on encryption software, paving the way for international e-commerce https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2015/04/remembering-case-established-code-speech https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2015/04/remembering-case-estab...
emiliosic 4y ago
Let's not forget that these policies fostered the development of encryption in Canada, Australia and other countries (See SSLEay for example). So it ended up being counter-productive. The simplest way to stop competition is to subsidize a product. In this case, offer the tools openly.

robin_reala 4y ago

US tried to block PlayStation 2s from going to China as they were too powerful: https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/library/review/061399china-chips-review.html https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/library/review/0...

ezconnect 4y ago

Since the creation of the United States of America. One famous in the computer era is the banning of encryption algorithm.

semi-extrinsic 4y ago

The opposite was of course done when the US sold a ton of Xeon Phi accelerators to China when they built the Tianhe-2 supercomputer. My favourite conspiracy theory is that this was done deliberately by the US, since Xeon Phi was a large pile of steaming turd, so the Chinese wasted money on a machine with high theoretical FLOPS but crappy real world performance, and also wasted the time of their scientists and programmers who were porting code to a programming paradigm that went nowhere fast.

hulitu 4y ago
Intel processors were always a waste of money.