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> The most popular tool in HashiCorp's ecosystem that wasn't written by them was written by a consulting firm who hated HashiCorp's UX Which tool is that? On

> The most popular tool in HashiCorp's ecosystem that wasn't written by them was written by a consulting firm who hated HashiCorp's UX Which tool is that? On a related note, Vault has a really excellent API. A joy.

jen20 4y ago
I'm assuming this is Terragrunt, which itself perpetuates all kinds of horrific practices which are absolutely unnecessary if you apply basic software engineering principles to infrastructure as code/config.
- kfrzcode 4y ago
  Could you express more? There's gotta be a good use case for Terragrunt; they have been useful so far for me
- schainks 4y ago
  Where does it say Terragrunt is part of Hashicorp?
  - namose 4y ago
    > The most popular tool in HashiCorp's ecosystem that wasn't written by them was written by a consulting firm who hated HashiCorp's UX This is the initial comment about Terragrunt, which doesn't say that
    - jen20 4y ago
      Indeed: it says the exact opposite.
      - namose 4y ago
        Good, we both agree that no one in this thread suggested terragrunt is developed by hashicorp?
- dpedu 4y ago
  Do you know of any articles or other writeups about this?
- datatrashfire 4y ago
  Terragrunt is an antipattern. Made the mistake once with a very poorly structured project I inherited, never again.
  - mixedCase 4y ago
    Terragrunt is not an anti-pattern, but it is a tool that is easier to get wrong than Terraform and so people create great messes with it. Used right it's the only way to remain sane on any non-trivial set of infra where you don't end up hand-rolling a half-baked version of Terragrunt.
    - busterarm 4y ago
      Managing 10^5 servers right now with Terragrunt. Can confirm, it's the only way to stay sane. Getting to this point was a learning process though. Probably six solid years of investment now.
      - dilyevsky 4y ago
        From experience terragrunt + atlantis has been much better experience than hashicorp's own terraform enterprise service.
        busterarm 4y ago
        not using terraform enterprise.
  - wernerb 4y ago
    "Code generation" is pure evil. I second that Terraform needs to work at least on dynamically specifying providerblocks. This is where people usually resort to terragrunt. Workspaces and state layering are in my experience hard on the novices and unfortunately they turn to terragrunt.
- throwaway787544 4y ago
  Not disagreeing, but you have to create a shit ton of scaffolding to work around TF's lack of useful functionality and painful UX. Terragrunt exists because somebody had to do the same, and then kept adding on "smart" features making it even more overcomplicated.
DSingularity 4y ago
Vault is excellent.
jamhed 4y ago
> Vault has a really excellent API. A joy. Strongly disagree: suppose we have secrets mounted at my/secrets, and we want to read a secret top/secret, which is represented as my/secrets/top/secret path in vault. However, the only way to access it via API is to read _all_ mount points, and match them with the path to split path to mount point and secret. vault cli itself follows the same logic: https://github.com/hashicorp/vault/blob/main/command/kv_helpers.go https://github.com/hashicorp/vault/blob/main/command/kv_help...
sidlls 4y ago
We’re using different Vaults it seems. HashiCorp’s tech is a mess of over engineering, poor UX, and insufficient documentation.
- moralestapia 4y ago
  >HashiCorp’s tech is a mess of over engineering, poor UX, and insufficient documentation. Second that. Very steep learning curve for some use cases that could be accomplished in a much easier way. Another kubernetes in disguise.
  - kfrzcode 4y ago
    k8s in disguise? Vault? Have you used either of these tools?
    - girvo 4y ago
      They're talking about Nomad here, with the "tech" in the GP comment widening the discussion, I assume.

jen20 4y ago

I'm assuming this is Terragrunt, which itself perpetuates all kinds of horrific practices which are absolutely unnecessary if you apply basic software engineering principles to infrastructure as code/config.

kfrzcode 4y ago
Could you express more? There's gotta be a good use case for Terragrunt; they have been useful so far for me
schainks 4y ago
Where does it say Terragrunt is part of Hashicorp?
- namose 4y ago
  > The most popular tool in HashiCorp's ecosystem that wasn't written by them was written by a consulting firm who hated HashiCorp's UX This is the initial comment about Terragrunt, which doesn't say that
  - jen20 4y ago
    Indeed: it says the exact opposite.
    - namose 4y ago
      Good, we both agree that no one in this thread suggested terragrunt is developed by hashicorp?
dpedu 4y ago
Do you know of any articles or other writeups about this?
datatrashfire 4y ago
Terragrunt is an antipattern. Made the mistake once with a very poorly structured project I inherited, never again.
- mixedCase 4y ago
  Terragrunt is not an anti-pattern, but it is a tool that is easier to get wrong than Terraform and so people create great messes with it. Used right it's the only way to remain sane on any non-trivial set of infra where you don't end up hand-rolling a half-baked version of Terragrunt.
  - busterarm 4y ago
    Managing 10^5 servers right now with Terragrunt. Can confirm, it's the only way to stay sane. Getting to this point was a learning process though. Probably six solid years of investment now.
    - dilyevsky 4y ago
      From experience terragrunt + atlantis has been much better experience than hashicorp's own terraform enterprise service.
      - busterarm 4y ago
        not using terraform enterprise.
- wernerb 4y ago
  "Code generation" is pure evil. I second that Terraform needs to work at least on dynamically specifying providerblocks. This is where people usually resort to terragrunt. Workspaces and state layering are in my experience hard on the novices and unfortunately they turn to terragrunt.
throwaway787544 4y ago
Not disagreeing, but you have to create a shit ton of scaffolding to work around TF's lack of useful functionality and painful UX. Terragrunt exists because somebody had to do the same, and then kept adding on "smart" features making it even more overcomplicated.

DSingularity 4y ago

Vault is excellent.

jamhed 4y ago

> Vault has a really excellent API. A joy. Strongly disagree: suppose we have secrets mounted at my/secrets, and we want to read a secret top/secret, which is represented as my/secrets/top/secret path in vault. However, the only way to access it via API is to read _all_ mount points, and match them with the path to split path to mount point and secret. vault cli itself follows the same logic: https://github.com/hashicorp/vault/blob/main/command/kv_helpers.go https://github.com/hashicorp/vault/blob/main/command/kv_help...

sidlls 4y ago

We’re using different Vaults it seems. HashiCorp’s tech is a mess of over engineering, poor UX, and insufficient documentation.

moralestapia 4y ago
>HashiCorp’s tech is a mess of over engineering, poor UX, and insufficient documentation. Second that. Very steep learning curve for some use cases that could be accomplished in a much easier way. Another kubernetes in disguise.
- kfrzcode 4y ago
  k8s in disguise? Vault? Have you used either of these tools?
  - girvo 4y ago
    They're talking about Nomad here, with the "tech" in the GP comment widening the discussion, I assume.