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The most fascinating fact about the state of Israel is that it is in an on-again-off-again state of war for something like the last 4000 years. I cannot fathom

The most fascinating fact about the state of Israel is that it is in an on-again-off-again state of war for something like the last 4000 years. I cannot fathom how is it possible for neither sides to win, especially the broadly speaking Arab side. Now with the nuclear arsenal and the very competent military they'll most likely survive at least till the first nuclear war, whenever that happens.

aa-jv 4y ago
The goal is not to win. The goal is to extract immense profit from the products of war.
assbuttbuttass 4y ago
Not sure what you mean, "the state of Israel" was created in 1948, it's less than 80 years old
- fffobar 4y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Israel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Israel
- hpcjoe 4y ago
  The modern state of Israel declared its independence in 1948 (and was immediately attacked by all of its neighbors, something which re-occurred multiple times). The ancient "state" of Israel has been in that land for north of 3000 years. As archaeological evidence continues to demonstrate.
  - ethotool 4y ago
    [flagged]
    - hpcjoe 4y ago
      [flagged]
      - ethotool 4y ago
        Everything you need to know is that I’m the descendent of Palestinian refugees. If you think I’m some right winged neo nazi you’re a fool.
        hpcjoe 4y ago
        [flagged]
  - nyokodo 4y ago
    > The ancient "state" of Israel has been in that land for north of 3000 years With a ~2500 year gap between the fall of the Iron Age kingdoms of Israel and Judah and the 1948 modern state.
    - hpcjoe 4y ago
      And continuous presence of jews in that land for the entire time. Your point?
      - inawarminister 4y ago
        yes, under the name of Palestinian Jews.
  - School-Cotton 4y ago
    [flagged]
ethotool 4y ago
Palestinians lived there for over 2000 years. Mainly Muslims and Christians but also a small percentage of Palestinian Jews (1%). It wasn’t until Zionisim and the movement that was first founded before WWI who conspired with the British to illegally take over Palestinian lands and expel over 750,000 refugees to neighboring countries.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- hpcjoe 4y ago
  Source for the historical "facts" ? I'd love to read up on this. The 750k refugees "expelled" (overwhelming historical documentary evidence exists of the vast majority leaving as a result of their leaders telling them to leave so they could kill the jews, and then let them come back) seems to omit the 850k (again historically well documented) jews expelled from arab lands post 1948. Simple google searches will provide sources to the historical material I referenced.
  - zen_1 4y ago
    The "Arab leaders told the Palestinians to flee" line is an old and tired piece of zionist propaganda, mostly used to "justify" the double standard of barring Palestinians whose grandparents were expelled (by claiming they left of their own flee will) from returning to Palestine, while extending the right of return to foreign Jews whose last ancestors who lived in the region most likely did so under the Roman empire. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_the_1948_Palestinian_exodus#%22Arab_leaders'_endorsement_of_flight%22_explanation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_the_1948_Palestinian... I fail to see why anyone would need to encourage Palestinians to flee, when they were subject to ethnic cleansing such as at Deir Yassin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deir_Yassin_massacre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deir_Yassin_massacre
    - hpcjoe 4y ago
      Using Zionist as a pejorative is a clear indication of personal bias, but you do you. Here's a good history of this conflict[1]. Worth a read. Labeling something you disagree with as propaganda, when there is so much documentary evidence supporting the thing you label thusly, is not a good argumentation strategy. The arabs who were refugees were not expelled. They were not re-admitted. As the article notes, the failures of the arab leadership and their inability to come to terms and negotiate in good faith with the new political leadership has lead to 75+ years of their own diaspora. As the article notes, these were not innocent, nor victims. Their children, held in these conditions for decades, should have been resettled where they landed. If they want even a chance of returning to Israel, they should bury their sword, create a genuine peace. Amazing things would happen then. Though, given the chant is "river to sea ...", I don't expect this to occur in anyone's lifetime. The arabs launched a war of aggression. They lost. They lost the subsequent wars they launched. Their people were displaced by those wars. They aren't victims of anything but terrible leadership. Israel isn't going anywhere. [1] http://historynewsnetwork.org/article/782 http://historynewsnetwork.org/article/782
tom-thistime 4y ago
What nation is not in an on-again-off-again state of war throughout its existence? I think that may be the rule, not the exception.
- fffobar 4y ago
  Fair point. I guess the difference is the lack of strategic alliances throughout the history with anyone in the area. There were tactical alliances, even with Iran somewhat recently (Operation Opera), but nothing long lasting and "solid". In other words, the environment has always been pretty hostile.

aa-jv 4y ago

The goal is not to win. The goal is to extract immense profit from the products of war.

assbuttbuttass 4y ago

Not sure what you mean, "the state of Israel" was created in 1948, it's less than 80 years old

fffobar 4y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Israel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Israel
hpcjoe 4y ago
The modern state of Israel declared its independence in 1948 (and was immediately attacked by all of its neighbors, something which re-occurred multiple times). The ancient "state" of Israel has been in that land for north of 3000 years. As archaeological evidence continues to demonstrate.
- ethotool 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - hpcjoe 4y ago
    [flagged]
    - ethotool 4y ago
      Everything you need to know is that I’m the descendent of Palestinian refugees. If you think I’m some right winged neo nazi you’re a fool.
      - hpcjoe 4y ago
        [flagged]
- nyokodo 4y ago
  > The ancient "state" of Israel has been in that land for north of 3000 years With a ~2500 year gap between the fall of the Iron Age kingdoms of Israel and Judah and the 1948 modern state.
  - hpcjoe 4y ago
    And continuous presence of jews in that land for the entire time. Your point?
    - inawarminister 4y ago
      yes, under the name of Palestinian Jews.
- School-Cotton 4y ago
  [flagged]

ethotool 4y ago

Palestinians lived there for over 2000 years. Mainly Muslims and Christians but also a small percentage of Palestinian Jews (1%). It wasn’t until Zionisim and the movement that was first founded before WWI who conspired with the British to illegally take over Palestinian lands and expel over 750,000 refugees to neighboring countries.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
hpcjoe 4y ago
Source for the historical "facts" ? I'd love to read up on this. The 750k refugees "expelled" (overwhelming historical documentary evidence exists of the vast majority leaving as a result of their leaders telling them to leave so they could kill the jews, and then let them come back) seems to omit the 850k (again historically well documented) jews expelled from arab lands post 1948. Simple google searches will provide sources to the historical material I referenced.
- zen_1 4y ago
  The "Arab leaders told the Palestinians to flee" line is an old and tired piece of zionist propaganda, mostly used to "justify" the double standard of barring Palestinians whose grandparents were expelled (by claiming they left of their own flee will) from returning to Palestine, while extending the right of return to foreign Jews whose last ancestors who lived in the region most likely did so under the Roman empire. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_the_1948_Palestinian_exodus#%22Arab_leaders'_endorsement_of_flight%22_explanation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_the_1948_Palestinian... I fail to see why anyone would need to encourage Palestinians to flee, when they were subject to ethnic cleansing such as at Deir Yassin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deir_Yassin_massacre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deir_Yassin_massacre
  - hpcjoe 4y ago
    Using Zionist as a pejorative is a clear indication of personal bias, but you do you. Here's a good history of this conflict[1]. Worth a read. Labeling something you disagree with as propaganda, when there is so much documentary evidence supporting the thing you label thusly, is not a good argumentation strategy. The arabs who were refugees were not expelled. They were not re-admitted. As the article notes, the failures of the arab leadership and their inability to come to terms and negotiate in good faith with the new political leadership has lead to 75+ years of their own diaspora. As the article notes, these were not innocent, nor victims. Their children, held in these conditions for decades, should have been resettled where they landed. If they want even a chance of returning to Israel, they should bury their sword, create a genuine peace. Amazing things would happen then. Though, given the chant is "river to sea ...", I don't expect this to occur in anyone's lifetime. The arabs launched a war of aggression. They lost. They lost the subsequent wars they launched. Their people were displaced by those wars. They aren't victims of anything but terrible leadership. Israel isn't going anywhere. [1] http://historynewsnetwork.org/article/782 http://historynewsnetwork.org/article/782

tom-thistime 4y ago

What nation is not in an on-again-off-again state of war throughout its existence? I think that may be the rule, not the exception.

fffobar 4y ago
Fair point. I guess the difference is the lack of strategic alliances throughout the history with anyone in the area. There were tactical alliances, even with Iran somewhat recently (Operation Opera), but nothing long lasting and "solid". In other words, the environment has always been pretty hostile.