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On the other hand, systems where the bar for guilt is too high err too much towards not punishing criminals. Eventually such systems are rejected by their subje

On the other hand, systems where the bar for guilt is too high err too much towards not punishing criminals. Eventually such systems are rejected by their subjects and collapse, either totally or into anarcho-tyranny. This is especially true of states with great power over the middle classes, but little power or willingness to exercise it over the worst criminal element. There's a balance to be found in the middle between standards of guilt that are too high or too low. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_T._Francis#Thought_and_legacy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_T._Francis#Thought_and_... >Francis's term "anarcho-tyranny" refers to armed dictatorship without rule of law, or a Hegelian synthesis when the state tyrannically or oppressively regulates citizens' lives yet is unable or unwilling to enforce fundamental protective law.

ceejayoz 4y ago
> Eventually such systems are rejected by their subjects and collapse, either totally or into anarcho-tyranny. Are there any actual examples of this happening? The link doesn't cite any.
- deepdriver 4y ago
  Anarchy-tyranny in 1980s New York (see “Context and Background”) led to this famous act of vigilantism and subsequent acquittal via what was essentially jury nullification: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1984_New_York_City_Subway_shooting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1984_New_York_City_Subway_shoo... Recalling a DA is firm rejection of his vision for a more-permissive justice system: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/chesa-boudin-san-francisco-da-recalled/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/chesa-boudin-san-francisco-da-r... In terms of total collapse, see Venezuela (“Public Opinion” subsection highlights ineffective courts and weak rulings): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Venezuela https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Venezuela
  - ceejayoz 4y ago
    Pretty thin evidence to jump on a white supremacist’s pet theory.
    - deepdriver 4y ago
      The state of law and order in Venezuela is thin evidence? How many countries’ justice systems would need to collapse to convince you of this concept’s validity? The “anarcho-tyranny” idea is orthogonal to Francis’s other and later views, and has become a mainstay topic in mainstream conservatism. Here it used in a Newsweek article by Hispanic conservative writer Pedro Gonzalez: https://www.newsweek.com/president-bidens-anarcho-tyranny-opinion-1733783 https://www.newsweek.com/president-bidens-anarcho-tyranny-op...
      - ceejayoz 4y ago
        > The state of law and order in Venezuela is thin evidence? It’s evidence of something, but not a too-high bar of criminal conviction. > has become a mainstay topic in mainstream conservatism This says bad things about modern mainstream conservatism, not good things about Francis.

ceejayoz 4y ago

> Eventually such systems are rejected by their subjects and collapse, either totally or into anarcho-tyranny. Are there any actual examples of this happening? The link doesn't cite any.

deepdriver 4y ago
Anarchy-tyranny in 1980s New York (see “Context and Background”) led to this famous act of vigilantism and subsequent acquittal via what was essentially jury nullification: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1984_New_York_City_Subway_shooting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1984_New_York_City_Subway_shoo... Recalling a DA is firm rejection of his vision for a more-permissive justice system: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/chesa-boudin-san-francisco-da-recalled/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/chesa-boudin-san-francisco-da-r... In terms of total collapse, see Venezuela (“Public Opinion” subsection highlights ineffective courts and weak rulings): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Venezuela https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Venezuela
- ceejayoz 4y ago
  Pretty thin evidence to jump on a white supremacist’s pet theory.
  - deepdriver 4y ago
    The state of law and order in Venezuela is thin evidence? How many countries’ justice systems would need to collapse to convince you of this concept’s validity? The “anarcho-tyranny” idea is orthogonal to Francis’s other and later views, and has become a mainstay topic in mainstream conservatism. Here it used in a Newsweek article by Hispanic conservative writer Pedro Gonzalez: https://www.newsweek.com/president-bidens-anarcho-tyranny-opinion-1733783 https://www.newsweek.com/president-bidens-anarcho-tyranny-op...
    - ceejayoz 4y ago
      > The state of law and order in Venezuela is thin evidence? It’s evidence of something, but not a too-high bar of criminal conviction. > has become a mainstay topic in mainstream conservatism This says bad things about modern mainstream conservatism, not good things about Francis.