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I thought about this for a bit, because at first I thought you were making up a rather insulting caricature that could only detract from your case, or at least
by psyc 4y ago
I thought about this for a bit, because at first I thought you were making up a rather insulting caricature that could only detract from your case, or at least from anyone wanting to engage with you. I've been in C++ game dev for something like 25 years, and I'm sure I have never encountered a programmer who acted like using pointers was any more impressive than using the alphabet. That goes for any daily-use language feature not including all the optional C++ esoterica. We don't even talk about using pointers, we just use them. We no kidding talk more about how to use curly braces than how to use pointers. But then it occurred to me that perhaps that's only true amongst ourselves, where we don't have as much to feel defensive about. It's just silently understood that pointers are basic. But maybe if a C++ programmer were talking to a Rust programmer or any other language with a higher level memory paradigm, and if it was a conversation about whose language was best for what, then maybe they would feel defensive and need to act a bit superior.
Or, perhaps when you say they act big about using pointers, do you mean that they act big about using pointers safely? Because that is different. That's a conversation I began declining to have because I no longer believe it's possible for a person who is trying to use C++ for a task, and has already decided it is the best available tool for that task, to have that conversation with pretty much anybody without it devolving into a pissing match.
- mustache_kimono 4y ago> But maybe if a C++ programmer were talking to a Rust programmer or any other language with a higher level memory paradigm, and if it was a conversation about whose language was best for what, then maybe they would feel defensive and need to act a bit superior. There is a reason "I will never be able to get the control I need (but I don't know)" or "I'll have to use unsafe everywhere (but I haven't tried)" are anti-Rust tropes. It's possible for certain game dev patterns to be awkward in Rust (really interested in hearing more about these!), but these other criticisms smell less like highly relevant informed criticism, and more like one hasn't tried Rust, as much as surface-level, mole hill criticism of hypothetical or pathological instances of bad syntax do. It isn't that one uses raw pointers. It's much more an attitude I've witnessed in younger programmers that if they're not doing it in C/C++, they're not doing the thing. It's about vibes as much as anything else, and I think, when their heros use their own vibe-level criticisms, they only reinforce that perspective. > Or, perhaps when you say they act big about using pointers, do you mean that they act big about using pointers safely? No, I wasn't thinking of that, but that's another part of it. And now that you mention it, "My code doesn't have any of these issues" can be yet another defensive tact.
- adamrezich 4y agoreally? "anti-Rust tropes"?
- mustache_kimono 4y agoIf you don't actually know, and haven't actually tried Rust? Yeah, maybe. Do you have something you'd like to offer the discussion?
- adamrezich 4y agoit's just that the specific phrasing of "anti-_______ tropes" is usually reserved for something much more severe than criticizing a programming language…
- mustache_kimono 4y agoGosh, if I knew I'd be dealing with the your-specific-phrasing-makes-me-uncomfortable police today, I would have worn pants.