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Judging the road by its endpoints is not a fair assessment. Merced to Bakersfield will connect a large portion of the Central Valley, which is one of the most p

by nalrey 4y ago

Judging the road by its endpoints is not a fair assessment. Merced to Bakersfield will connect a large portion of the Central Valley, which is one of the most productive agricultural regions in the world with 7.2M people living in it. While indeed Merced and Bakersfield have 84K and 380K populations in the cities, the population of these and covered areas are much larger; (250K in Merced, 930K in Fresno area, 850K in Bakersfield, etc.) edit: grammar

soheil 4y ago
> is not a fair assessment > one of the most productive agricultural regions And since when farmers relied so heavily on trains for their commute?
- culi 4y ago
  Since trains were invented and the seasons kept cycling? The largest migrations of people are seasonal agricultural workers around the world. Until gen z gets their polyculture garden cities with a large variety of crops for each season, I don't see that changing
- sfvegandude 4y ago
  Well, nobody relies heavily on trains for their commute in this region because the train hasn’t been built yet. Also, a vast majority of the people who work in agriculture aren’t “farmers” who walk out of their house and till their own land. They are laborers, who often live far away from their work sites, which shift with the seasons.
  - WillPostForFood 4y ago
    Grape pickers using HSR to commute from their condo I. Palo Alto to the fields in Merced. Yep.
    - sfvegandude 4y ago
      There are stops between those two places and “grape pickers” as you call them (though they do much more) also… do other things besides work. In fact, HSR will enable them to do those other things even more. It will also allow people in those places to work other jobs besides “grape picking.”
    - nalrey 4y ago
      Well, how about living in Merced and working in SF area? If a trip from Merced to SF would be less than 70mins, this would beat all rush-hour traffic along 101, and become viable living option.
ryantgtg 4y ago
It’s certainly not the “string of pearls” route that urban planning school told me was ideal for HSR (with Japan having some good examples of routes with big cities at relatively short intervals). As an aside, I work for one of the main consultants on this project (wrote the state EIR, design criteria, program delivery, etc)… and I’m really glad my work has nothing to do with this project!
tdeck 4y ago
Ok, but central valley cities are all very car-oriented. If you take the train to Bakersfield you'll be in Bakersfield without a car. I've never been there to say for sure, but I suspect that's a bad time and you'd want to rent a car or take Uber when you arrive. Both of those aren't convenient, which is a problem for passenger rail in the US in general. You end up in a big parking lot by a strip mall near nothing walkable.
- ryukafalz 4y ago
  Sure but if you densify first then people start complaining there’s not enough parking. You need to do both.
- nalrey 4y ago
  Isn't it a classical chicken and egg problem? Reliance on car => no public transport; No public transport => reliance on car. Someone should make an effort to change it.
  - rayiner 4y ago
    HSR isn’t “public transport.” Completely different things. And not even Japan has public transport serving agricultural places.
    - mulmen 4y ago
      I have taken a train through agricultural areas of Japan. It was really nice actually. Tokyo Subway to Shinkansen to a regional train to a single car train. All with painless in-station transfers. Also the California HSR project includes modernization of connecting services. Do you consider Caltrain to be public transit?
    - nalrey 4y ago
      I would love to hear why HSR is not "public transport." Also, Central valley is not just an agricultural place: "On less than 1 percent of the total farmland in the United States, the Central Valley produces 8 percent of the nation's agricultural output by value: US$43.5 billion in 2013." From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Valley_(California) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Valley_(California)

by nalrey 4y ago

soheil 4y ago

> is not a fair assessment > one of the most productive agricultural regions And since when farmers relied so heavily on trains for their commute?

culi 4y ago
Since trains were invented and the seasons kept cycling? The largest migrations of people are seasonal agricultural workers around the world. Until gen z gets their polyculture garden cities with a large variety of crops for each season, I don't see that changing
sfvegandude 4y ago
Well, nobody relies heavily on trains for their commute in this region because the train hasn’t been built yet. Also, a vast majority of the people who work in agriculture aren’t “farmers” who walk out of their house and till their own land. They are laborers, who often live far away from their work sites, which shift with the seasons.
- WillPostForFood 4y ago
  Grape pickers using HSR to commute from their condo I. Palo Alto to the fields in Merced. Yep.
  - sfvegandude 4y ago
    There are stops between those two places and “grape pickers” as you call them (though they do much more) also… do other things besides work. In fact, HSR will enable them to do those other things even more. It will also allow people in those places to work other jobs besides “grape picking.”
  - nalrey 4y ago
    Well, how about living in Merced and working in SF area? If a trip from Merced to SF would be less than 70mins, this would beat all rush-hour traffic along 101, and become viable living option.

ryantgtg 4y ago

It’s certainly not the “string of pearls” route that urban planning school told me was ideal for HSR (with Japan having some good examples of routes with big cities at relatively short intervals). As an aside, I work for one of the main consultants on this project (wrote the state EIR, design criteria, program delivery, etc)… and I’m really glad my work has nothing to do with this project!

tdeck 4y ago

Ok, but central valley cities are all very car-oriented. If you take the train to Bakersfield you'll be in Bakersfield without a car. I've never been there to say for sure, but I suspect that's a bad time and you'd want to rent a car or take Uber when you arrive. Both of those aren't convenient, which is a problem for passenger rail in the US in general. You end up in a big parking lot by a strip mall near nothing walkable.

ryukafalz 4y ago
Sure but if you densify first then people start complaining there’s not enough parking. You need to do both.
nalrey 4y ago
Isn't it a classical chicken and egg problem? Reliance on car => no public transport; No public transport => reliance on car. Someone should make an effort to change it.
- rayiner 4y ago
  HSR isn’t “public transport.” Completely different things. And not even Japan has public transport serving agricultural places.
  - mulmen 4y ago
    I have taken a train through agricultural areas of Japan. It was really nice actually. Tokyo Subway to Shinkansen to a regional train to a single car train. All with painless in-station transfers. Also the California HSR project includes modernization of connecting services. Do you consider Caltrain to be public transit?
  - nalrey 4y ago
    I would love to hear why HSR is not "public transport." Also, Central valley is not just an agricultural place: "On less than 1 percent of the total farmland in the United States, the Central Valley produces 8 percent of the nation's agricultural output by value: US$43.5 billion in 2013." From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Valley_(California) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Valley_(California)