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> I've also found that interviews don't tell you much about reality. Always ask to see code and talk to engineers about what their days look like. I believe th

by rethab 4y ago

> I've also found that interviews don't tell you much about reality. Always ask to see code and talk to engineers about what their days look like. I believe there are very few legitimate reasons they won't show you their code, but more likely if they're refusing, it's because they're hiding something. When talking to an engineer, ask them how their code goes from idea to production and have it explained in detail. This will tell you what type of management they have, what testing/review/deployment practices, etc.. As a bonus, I also like to ask my future peers what they don't like about their job or what they'd like to change. I agree most jobs are some form of shite, but there are good ones. Being more picky during the interview phase should hopefully allow you to find some of those while weeding out the bad quicker.

fendy3002 4y ago
No matter what I simply won't show any code to interviewer due to security reason, no matter how simple it is. It's simply not worth the hassle.
OrangeMonkey 4y ago
I'm sure it depends on industry, but in my industry there is no way showing someone code during an interview would fly. Zero chance. A programmer who decided on their own to show our code to someone without nda and a confidentiality agreement would be at best severely chastised and no longer trusted with anything important or dismissed. But, your mileage may vary - every place is different.
- chasd00 4y ago
  Yeah at my firm an interviewer getting access to and sharing code would go further than dismissal and result in unlocking the cages of the attack lawyers. They may or may not be turned loose but that’s def a DEFCON 2 event.
Hoasi 4y ago
> Always ask to see code and talk to engineers about what their days look like. I believe there are very few legitimate reasons they won't show you their code, but more likely if they're refusing, it's because they're hiding something. When talking to an engineer, ask them how their code goes from idea to production and have it explained in detail. In an ideal world it makes sense to have a look at the code and understand how the company works from a holistic standpoint. However in reality I doubt that many companies would allow that to happen at interview stage…
- thr0wawayf00 4y ago
  I've asked to peruse source code in interviews and some companies have complied. Never hurts to ask. I usually just throw out the idea to let my interviewer share their screen and navigate the codebase while I ask questions. This way, we don't have to fiddle with repository access and I can get a glimpse of their organizational culture.
BoumTAC 4y ago
Does it really happened like that in the US ? It seems like a total different world. Here in France, if I ask for something during the interview process with the recruiter, I will get a response like this: "Sorry we don't do that in our process, so goodbye" and they move to the next candidate while I'm out for this job.
- the8472 4y ago
  From central european here. The initial interview usually has been done by a HR person + someone from the department that is hiring. If that went well there was an on-site tour of the department in question, talking with engineers, looking at their projects including source code and workflows. The only time someone refused to show code was when it was owned by a customer.
- xeromal 4y ago
  Nah, this person is delusional. I don't even know why you'd want to see their code. I'm sure plenty would explain their processes and how they code, but they're not showing you their code unless it's already public which would be a moot point then.
  - kod 4y ago
    That person is not delusional. I've successfully asked for and been shown code as part of interview processes with multiple companies.
- ThalesX 4y ago
  > Here in France, if I ask for something during the interview process with the recruiter, I will get a response like this: "Sorry we don't do that in our process, so goodbye" and they move to the next candidate while I'm out for this job? Eastern Europe, the same. I asked a couple of years ago what are the credentials of the business unit manager, of the line manager and the technical team lead. They almost laughed me away from the building.
- LAC-Tech 4y ago
  Well now you have a career goal - stop working for french companies.
imiric 4y ago
Judging from sibling comments, this is why you deprioritize or flat out refuse to work on closed source and proprietary software. There are plenty of good companies willing to pay you to work on open source.
neilv 4y ago
I don't recall hearing of (non-opensource) proprietary code being shown in an interview. Is that common in some circles? In a startup, I think I'd have to get an NDA from everyone, even if the code was mindless bulk glue code -- if only to avoid having to later mention that practice to investors who are checking our IP diligence. Would the following alternative work for you? In a great engineering environment, people will give sincere answers to questions, or tell you when they can't tell you (because they don't know, or because of business-related conflicts). What about just asking them what their code is like, and see whether their answer sounds like they know what they're talking about, such that that they could give you an accurate answer. Variation: if they know what they're talking about, but they misrepresented it intentionally, that's a really bad sign from an engineer. And hiring engineers under false pretenses would be a bad idea, as would setting precedent for engineers in that organization intentionally misrepresenting technical information to each other. (That doesn't mean that a dumb organization wouldn't establish an internal culture of dishonesty anyway, but you'll have to filter out the self-destructive and the scammers some other way.)
- giaour 4y ago
  This may happen more at large companies than at startups, but having interviewees sign NDAs is normal, isn’t it?
  - ghaff 4y ago
    >but having interviewees sign NDAs is normal I've certainly never had to sign one.
  - neilv 4y ago
    I haven't seen NDA on interview from many startups in the Boston area. (Which is good, because I minimize the number of NDAs that I sign, and just try to be professional and collegial.) The first NDA for an interview that I recall was from a big tech company, and most of it could be paraphrased as something like "Everything we tell you is under strict NDA; anything you tell us, we will treat as public domain" (or maybe it was more like nonexclusive license to use; I forget for certain which that particular company said, since I've also seen the latter since). Later, I think that company reworked it to be more like "Don't tell us anything that could be proprietary to someone else!"

by rethab 4y ago

fendy3002 4y ago

No matter what I simply won't show any code to interviewer due to security reason, no matter how simple it is. It's simply not worth the hassle.

OrangeMonkey 4y ago

I'm sure it depends on industry, but in my industry there is no way showing someone code during an interview would fly. Zero chance. A programmer who decided on their own to show our code to someone without nda and a confidentiality agreement would be at best severely chastised and no longer trusted with anything important or dismissed. But, your mileage may vary - every place is different.

chasd00 4y ago
Yeah at my firm an interviewer getting access to and sharing code would go further than dismissal and result in unlocking the cages of the attack lawyers. They may or may not be turned loose but that’s def a DEFCON 2 event.

Hoasi 4y ago

> Always ask to see code and talk to engineers about what their days look like. I believe there are very few legitimate reasons they won't show you their code, but more likely if they're refusing, it's because they're hiding something. When talking to an engineer, ask them how their code goes from idea to production and have it explained in detail. In an ideal world it makes sense to have a look at the code and understand how the company works from a holistic standpoint. However in reality I doubt that many companies would allow that to happen at interview stage…

thr0wawayf00 4y ago
I've asked to peruse source code in interviews and some companies have complied. Never hurts to ask. I usually just throw out the idea to let my interviewer share their screen and navigate the codebase while I ask questions. This way, we don't have to fiddle with repository access and I can get a glimpse of their organizational culture.

BoumTAC 4y ago

Does it really happened like that in the US ? It seems like a total different world. Here in France, if I ask for something during the interview process with the recruiter, I will get a response like this: "Sorry we don't do that in our process, so goodbye" and they move to the next candidate while I'm out for this job.

the8472 4y ago
From central european here. The initial interview usually has been done by a HR person + someone from the department that is hiring. If that went well there was an on-site tour of the department in question, talking with engineers, looking at their projects including source code and workflows. The only time someone refused to show code was when it was owned by a customer.
xeromal 4y ago
Nah, this person is delusional. I don't even know why you'd want to see their code. I'm sure plenty would explain their processes and how they code, but they're not showing you their code unless it's already public which would be a moot point then.
- kod 4y ago
  That person is not delusional. I've successfully asked for and been shown code as part of interview processes with multiple companies.
ThalesX 4y ago
> Here in France, if I ask for something during the interview process with the recruiter, I will get a response like this: "Sorry we don't do that in our process, so goodbye" and they move to the next candidate while I'm out for this job? Eastern Europe, the same. I asked a couple of years ago what are the credentials of the business unit manager, of the line manager and the technical team lead. They almost laughed me away from the building.
LAC-Tech 4y ago
Well now you have a career goal - stop working for french companies.

imiric 4y ago

Judging from sibling comments, this is why you deprioritize or flat out refuse to work on closed source and proprietary software. There are plenty of good companies willing to pay you to work on open source.

neilv 4y ago

I don't recall hearing of (non-opensource) proprietary code being shown in an interview. Is that common in some circles? In a startup, I think I'd have to get an NDA from everyone, even if the code was mindless bulk glue code -- if only to avoid having to later mention that practice to investors who are checking our IP diligence. Would the following alternative work for you? In a great engineering environment, people will give sincere answers to questions, or tell you when they can't tell you (because they don't know, or because of business-related conflicts). What about just asking them what their code is like, and see whether their answer sounds like they know what they're talking about, such that that they could give you an accurate answer. Variation: if they know what they're talking about, but they misrepresented it intentionally, that's a really bad sign from an engineer. And hiring engineers under false pretenses would be a bad idea, as would setting precedent for engineers in that organization intentionally misrepresenting technical information to each other. (That doesn't mean that a dumb organization wouldn't establish an internal culture of dishonesty anyway, but you'll have to filter out the self-destructive and the scammers some other way.)

giaour 4y ago
This may happen more at large companies than at startups, but having interviewees sign NDAs is normal, isn’t it?
- ghaff 4y ago
  >but having interviewees sign NDAs is normal I've certainly never had to sign one.
- neilv 4y ago
  I haven't seen NDA on interview from many startups in the Boston area. (Which is good, because I minimize the number of NDAs that I sign, and just try to be professional and collegial.) The first NDA for an interview that I recall was from a big tech company, and most of it could be paraphrased as something like "Everything we tell you is under strict NDA; anything you tell us, we will treat as public domain" (or maybe it was more like nonexclusive license to use; I forget for certain which that particular company said, since I've also seen the latter since). Later, I think that company reworked it to be more like "Don't tell us anything that could be proprietary to someone else!"