6 ms·

Hate PDF Forms? Check Out My No Code Solution

50 points by pheasantquiff 4y ago

pheasantquiff 4y ago
Hate PDF Forms? Check out my No Code solution! Create a form using text markup. Get an URL pointing to the form and mail it to your customers. I recently received a PDF form (created by M$ Word). I use Linux and managed to open it with Libreoffice (Draw!). The text entry boxes were misaligned or just missing. Digits each had a separate text field. Tiresome... By the time I had re-exported it to PDF with the fields filled, some of the formatting had been changed/lost. So I made this. I'd rather fill out forms in my browser. Browsers can print PDF. What could go wrong? Tell me in the comments below.
- focusedone 4y ago
  Really cool! Nice work solving a problem and putting it out there for people to see! Will the code be out somewhere so others can contribute to it?
- julius 4y ago
  > or view the form here https://sayitwith.ink/form/d59de7609590d1da1cd24fb5ddd6a775 https://sayitwith.ink/form/d59de7609590d1da1cd24fb5ddd6a775 bad form id
  - pheasantquiff 4y ago
    Thanks. I did a re-release and deleted the database of forms. Link is now updated.
- turtlebits 4y ago
  I like PDF forms, they're just hard to create. You don't need a specialized app like Libreoffice to open and fill out a PDF form, just use any modern browser.
  - pheasantquiff 4y ago
    Editing in PDF sounds like a good idea. I just tried it in Firefox (latest/postmodern, Linux) and none (not a single one) of the form's fields are editable. It's an even worse experience than Libreoffice.
    - phonon 4y ago
      Pdf.js (which Firefox uses) does support filling out Acrobat Forms (acroforms as well as XFA). Possibly the PDF you have is corrupted? You can read more about PDF.js support for forms here.[0] Libreoffice also supports creating Acrobat Forms.[1] [0] https://blog.mozilla.org/attack-and-defense/2021/10/14/implementing-form-filling-and-accessibility-in-the-firefox-pdf-viewer/ https://blog.mozilla.org/attack-and-defense/2021/10/14/imple... [1] https://www.linuxuprising.com/2019/02/how-to-create-fillable-pdf-forms-with.html https://www.linuxuprising.com/2019/02/how-to-create-fillable...
ss48 4y ago
Bug: Get the following error unless I change the text in text box. server internal error (identical form exists?)
- ziddoap 4y ago
  Clicking the "view the form here" link is also bugging out, says "bad form id"
  - pheasantquiff 4y ago
    Thanks. I did a re-release and deleted the database of forms. Link is now updated. (creating the identical form twice is not allowed; not really a problem in real world scenarios)
    - ziddoap 4y ago
      One real-world scenario where it seems to be a problem is for you to show off your work :) Clicking "create form" (to see the example you provided) returns the identical form error again. I have to modify it to see how it works, rather than using the example you provided. Not a show stopper at all, but not intuitive for an example website as there is no indication that I need to modify your example form before being able to see the example of what is produced. Very cool though!
murkle 4y ago
Why not go one step further and add a "Save" button which creates (& downloads) a PDF in the browser?
- GauntletWizard 4y ago
  Or even just a button that brings up the Print window so that the browser can save as PDF
  - pheasantquiff 4y ago
    Yes. Certainly interesting ideas I will look into.
kevmo314 4y ago
Is no code a marketing term for code? Looks like code to me.
- nerdponx 4y ago
  It's "less code" for sure.
  - feet 4y ago
    Less code than what, exactly? A web form?
- pheasantquiff 4y ago
  > Is no code a marketing term for code Yes. I could have said "low-code" and probably have been able to look at myself in the mirror. Now I am thoroughly ashamed of myself.
  - feet 4y ago
    How is it low code? It's literally all code
  - mpweiher 4y ago
    "Since FORTRAN should virtually eliminate coding and debugging..."
- sh4rks 4y ago
  Can you really classify this as code? It's just a series of statements, no conditionals or variables. Though to be fair, when I saw no-code, I was expecting drag-and-drop form elements.
  - feet 4y ago
    How do you define "code"? Does code require logic or is it simply text encoding something else?
- deleted 4y ago
nhumrich 4y ago
This isn't no code. This isn't even low-code. This is just a DSL (domain specific language).
- jhkiehna 4y ago
  This was my thought exactly.
tdeck 4y ago
I like the concept a lot. A couple of suggestions you might consider: 1. Grab a lightweight CSS framework like Milligram (there are a bunch of them) and add it so the forms will be styled in a more modern way. 2. Test on mobile. For me the layout of the current forms shows up wrong, it doesn't take the full screen width and labels in the example form run over other elements.
- pheasantquiff 4y ago
  Thanks for the Milligram suggestion. I will look into it. It may even fix your mobile experience. Also thanks for for the mobile test feedback. Can I ask what mobile device you tested on? Such data points would be really useful to me. I actually did test on my phone first, Android/Chrome and _in landscape_ it appeared usable. The PDF also produced OK. It was not an _amazing_ experience but compared the PDF form experience I had it was a delight. I don't consider a phone when I have to fill out a form but in an emergency it would have been possible.
ab_testing 4y ago
How to add dates, times, drop-downs and multi-select ?
- pheasantquiff 4y ago
  My first paying customer! Happy Day! Srsly tho. at the moment I don't have those features, but neither did the PDF form experience I'm trying to beat. It's a low bar, but we are still expected to fill out PDF forms today, in the future year of 2022.
  - phonon 4y ago
    Acrobat Forms support multiple widget types, as well as validation.
amin 4y ago
I think it’s perfect as it is. I hope you ignore the people who’ll try to pressure you into adding libraries to making it look like every other bloated webapp on the web.
- pheasantquiff 4y ago
  (just between you and me, I was planning on ignoring the suggestions for extra libraries and "modernisation"; also it's a feature that it doesn't use a gui form designer. ssshh don't tell anyone...)
  - mxuribe 4y ago
    I'm obliged to reference the classic: http://motherfuckingwebsite.com http://motherfuckingwebsite.com Keep on truckin' with your minimal badass self! :-)
projektfu 4y ago
For creating a PDF have you considered a "print" button? I feel if you sent it to someone, they might not actually know that you can Ctrl-P. I like the print stylesheet, nice and crisp.
loloquwowndueo 4y ago
I hate pdf forms but old-fashioned organizations love them - so I have to deal with them. The worst is when they scan a paper form and send it as pdf - second worst is pdf form with non-fillable fields. I use xournal as a “typewriter” to fill out these monstrosities. I can even add a scanned signature to avoid having to print, sign and re scan the thing.
- pheasantquiff 4y ago
  This! I too, have resorted to the same techniques, making me feel like a "master forger" at his painstaking art. I was imagining a tool which would just let me create an interactive overlay on a PDF. It sounds like Xournal might be just the thing I need. So, thanks for the tip.
wildrhythms 4y ago
This is really cool! One suggestion - don't expose when 'identical form exists' on duplicate creator names. This can be de-anonymizing, because I can put some (fictitious) 'target's name into that box and see if they made a form using your service. Also it's not clear to me why it's necessary to have a creator name in the first place.
- pheasantquiff 4y ago
  The de-anonymizing attack is very interesting. Thank you for highlighting it. The creator name is 'feature creep' about a future use scenario. People were trying to add uniqueness by changing the creator name, so I added it to the key generation hash. Instead I should have removed the creator name field from the interface.

50 points by pheasantquiff 4y ago

Hate PDF Forms? Check out my No Code solution! Create a form using text markup. Get an URL pointing to the form and mail it to your customers. I recently received a PDF form (created by M$ Word). I use Linux and managed to open it with Libreoffice (Draw!). The text entry boxes were misaligned or just missing. Digits each had a separate text field. Tiresome... By the time I had re-exported it to PDF with the fields filled, some of the formatting had been changed/lost. So I made this. I'd rather fill out forms in my browser. Browsers can print PDF. What could go wrong? Tell me in the comments below.

focusedone 4y ago
Really cool! Nice work solving a problem and putting it out there for people to see! Will the code be out somewhere so others can contribute to it?
julius 4y ago
> or view the form here https://sayitwith.ink/form/d59de7609590d1da1cd24fb5ddd6a775 https://sayitwith.ink/form/d59de7609590d1da1cd24fb5ddd6a775 bad form id
- pheasantquiff 4y ago
  Thanks. I did a re-release and deleted the database of forms. Link is now updated.
turtlebits 4y ago
I like PDF forms, they're just hard to create. You don't need a specialized app like Libreoffice to open and fill out a PDF form, just use any modern browser.
- pheasantquiff 4y ago
  Editing in PDF sounds like a good idea. I just tried it in Firefox (latest/postmodern, Linux) and none (not a single one) of the form's fields are editable. It's an even worse experience than Libreoffice.
  - phonon 4y ago
    Pdf.js (which Firefox uses) does support filling out Acrobat Forms (acroforms as well as XFA). Possibly the PDF you have is corrupted? You can read more about PDF.js support for forms here.[0] Libreoffice also supports creating Acrobat Forms.[1] [0] https://blog.mozilla.org/attack-and-defense/2021/10/14/implementing-form-filling-and-accessibility-in-the-firefox-pdf-viewer/ https://blog.mozilla.org/attack-and-defense/2021/10/14/imple... [1] https://www.linuxuprising.com/2019/02/how-to-create-fillable-pdf-forms-with.html https://www.linuxuprising.com/2019/02/how-to-create-fillable...

ss48 4y ago

Bug: Get the following error unless I change the text in text box. server internal error (identical form exists?)

ziddoap 4y ago
Clicking the "view the form here" link is also bugging out, says "bad form id"
- pheasantquiff 4y ago
  Thanks. I did a re-release and deleted the database of forms. Link is now updated. (creating the identical form twice is not allowed; not really a problem in real world scenarios)
  - ziddoap 4y ago
    One real-world scenario where it seems to be a problem is for you to show off your work :) Clicking "create form" (to see the example you provided) returns the identical form error again. I have to modify it to see how it works, rather than using the example you provided. Not a show stopper at all, but not intuitive for an example website as there is no indication that I need to modify your example form before being able to see the example of what is produced. Very cool though!

murkle 4y ago

Why not go one step further and add a "Save" button which creates (& downloads) a PDF in the browser?

GauntletWizard 4y ago
Or even just a button that brings up the Print window so that the browser can save as PDF
- pheasantquiff 4y ago
  Yes. Certainly interesting ideas I will look into.

kevmo314 4y ago

Is no code a marketing term for code? Looks like code to me.

nerdponx 4y ago
It's "less code" for sure.
- feet 4y ago
  Less code than what, exactly? A web form?
pheasantquiff 4y ago
> Is no code a marketing term for code Yes. I could have said "low-code" and probably have been able to look at myself in the mirror. Now I am thoroughly ashamed of myself.
- feet 4y ago
  How is it low code? It's literally all code
- mpweiher 4y ago
  "Since FORTRAN should virtually eliminate coding and debugging..."
sh4rks 4y ago
Can you really classify this as code? It's just a series of statements, no conditionals or variables. Though to be fair, when I saw no-code, I was expecting drag-and-drop form elements.
- feet 4y ago
  How do you define "code"? Does code require logic or is it simply text encoding something else?
deleted 4y ago

nhumrich 4y ago

This isn't no code. This isn't even low-code. This is just a DSL (domain specific language).

jhkiehna 4y ago
This was my thought exactly.

tdeck 4y ago

I like the concept a lot. A couple of suggestions you might consider: 1. Grab a lightweight CSS framework like Milligram (there are a bunch of them) and add it so the forms will be styled in a more modern way. 2. Test on mobile. For me the layout of the current forms shows up wrong, it doesn't take the full screen width and labels in the example form run over other elements.

pheasantquiff 4y ago
Thanks for the Milligram suggestion. I will look into it. It may even fix your mobile experience. Also thanks for for the mobile test feedback. Can I ask what mobile device you tested on? Such data points would be really useful to me. I actually did test on my phone first, Android/Chrome and _in landscape_ it appeared usable. The PDF also produced OK. It was not an _amazing_ experience but compared the PDF form experience I had it was a delight. I don't consider a phone when I have to fill out a form but in an emergency it would have been possible.

ab_testing 4y ago

How to add dates, times, drop-downs and multi-select ?

pheasantquiff 4y ago
My first paying customer! Happy Day! Srsly tho. at the moment I don't have those features, but neither did the PDF form experience I'm trying to beat. It's a low bar, but we are still expected to fill out PDF forms today, in the future year of 2022.
- phonon 4y ago
  Acrobat Forms support multiple widget types, as well as validation.

amin 4y ago

I think it’s perfect as it is. I hope you ignore the people who’ll try to pressure you into adding libraries to making it look like every other bloated webapp on the web.

pheasantquiff 4y ago
(just between you and me, I was planning on ignoring the suggestions for extra libraries and "modernisation"; also it's a feature that it doesn't use a gui form designer. ssshh don't tell anyone...)
- mxuribe 4y ago
  I'm obliged to reference the classic: http://motherfuckingwebsite.com http://motherfuckingwebsite.com Keep on truckin' with your minimal badass self! :-)

projektfu 4y ago

For creating a PDF have you considered a "print" button? I feel if you sent it to someone, they might not actually know that you can Ctrl-P. I like the print stylesheet, nice and crisp.

loloquwowndueo 4y ago

I hate pdf forms but old-fashioned organizations love them - so I have to deal with them. The worst is when they scan a paper form and send it as pdf - second worst is pdf form with non-fillable fields. I use xournal as a “typewriter” to fill out these monstrosities. I can even add a scanned signature to avoid having to print, sign and re scan the thing.

pheasantquiff 4y ago
This! I too, have resorted to the same techniques, making me feel like a "master forger" at his painstaking art. I was imagining a tool which would just let me create an interactive overlay on a PDF. It sounds like Xournal might be just the thing I need. So, thanks for the tip.

wildrhythms 4y ago

This is really cool! One suggestion - don't expose when 'identical form exists' on duplicate creator names. This can be de-anonymizing, because I can put some (fictitious) 'target's name into that box and see if they made a form using your service. Also it's not clear to me why it's necessary to have a creator name in the first place.

pheasantquiff 4y ago
The de-anonymizing attack is very interesting. Thank you for highlighting it. The creator name is 'feature creep' about a future use scenario. People were trying to add uniqueness by changing the creator name, so I added it to the key generation hash. Instead I should have removed the creator name field from the interface.