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I don't know what is the last time you used linux but lately there is great improvements in user experience. I know non-techie people using Linux Mint/ubuntu

by croh 4y ago

I don't know what is the last time you used linux but lately there is great improvements in user experience. I know non-techie people using Linux Mint/ubuntu without any hassels.

butterNaN 4y ago
I'm the de facto IT support for my family and neighbours. They are using Pop OS for about 3 years now. It has been great from both their UX and my maintenance perspective. My father even did the 20.10 to 21.04 LTS upgrade himself! I highly doubt if windows would've been as smooth an experience. (Macs are out of question for us since none of us are rich!)
- jeroenhd 4y ago
  Windows upgrades go so smoothly they've been repackaged as updates. They're also highly fault resistant by default with automated rollbacks out of the box. I'm not saying Pop is bad, but Windows upgrades are super easy and user friendly (if you ignore the privacy risks that come with using Windows). I wish common Linux distros would pack something like system restore by default already! I know these tools (based on BTRFS/ZFS snapshots) exist and work great, but they need to be set up manually and most people won't.
rich_sasha 4y ago
I'm writing this from my Ubuntu desktop (LTE). Just a few months ago some update broke everything (graphics). Then somehow I fixed it, but it broke again on restart. It took best part of a week for me to fix. You might say it wasn't the best distribution for reliability, or that graphics with NVidia are always an issue etc. but the fact remains that, for me, for an OS to "just work out of the box", MacOS is much better. [I'm also not a Linux n00b, been using it for over a decade, though not an expert for sure]
- prmoustache 4y ago
  So basically you played with fire(nvidia) and got burned. There is one way to run nvidia stuff on Linux and have a decent experience: run a distro that actually support and has partnership with nvidia, which mean a distro like Redhat Enterprise Linux. It has long term support too. It is the same with Apple or windows if you start using shitty drivers from a shady brand you will run into issues at some point.
  - rich_sasha 4y ago
    Well, that's one way to look at it: you need to carefully pick your distro, make sure it's compatible with your hardware, and so on. My way is rather: I don't want to even pollute my brain cache with that. I want a Computer with an Operating System that Just Work. Because for me tinkering with the setup of my desktop is not fun, the fun bit is what I do with a properly working computer. I'll pay a premium to Apple for that (though, mind you, MBP is competitively priced with similarly-performant laptops), and I'd pay that same premium to a laptop+Linux provider. Except... my confidence in the latter working well is lower. Because apart from fixing broken graphics drivers, I've also had to, in my days, debug: - package managers that somehow got themselves into a bad state - fight with linkers when trying to build fairly benign stuff on my desktop - don't even mention printing and many other things I don't even remember anymore.
    - prmoustache 4y ago
      >Well, that's one way to look at it: you need to carefully pick your distro, make sure it's compatible with your hardware, and so on. > >My way is rather: I don't want to even pollute my brain cache with that. I That is exactly what you did by choosing Apple. If you go on the redhat website and choose certified system you can pick your hardware from any vendor the same way you choose your Apple machine on the Apple store.
    - jeroenhd 4y ago
      I've had more luck printing from Linux than any other operating system, funnily enough. It just seems to work, no 3GB of driver software or manual browsing for INF files required. The UI is a bit clunky when you want to configure advanced settings but it's no worse than your average HP driver in my opinion. My experiments with macOS actually had the same problems you list, though I haven't tried printing more than once. MacOS comes with ancient Unix tools and you end up downloading half a Linux install over Brew when you try to compile stuff, and now you have added an external package manager you need to deal with to as system that doesn't really support one. Mg experience with package managers is that if you ignore the warnings (adding --force to overrule errors, adding external repositories that replace system libraries or aren't maintained, mess with config files to override same defaults, mix package managers (apt+global pip = hell)) you won't see them break themselves. I've broken Windows installs by messing with my system in similar ways, though there never seems to be a solution when this happens other than a reinstall. Trouble mostly comes from outdated, misguided guides found on Google that'll ignore any best practices for your opersting system and set things up Their Way, turning your install into a ticking time bomb when the writers have long had to reinstall their operating system without ever updating their guides. All operating systems I've tried are bad in their own way. Windows worked great until 8 came out. MacOS works well enough if you don't mind Apple's control/decisions/limitations and accept the risk of buying a faulty device that the company will deny all the way up to class lawsuit settlements. Linux works well if you're lucky with your hardware. The BSDs work well if you don't plan on doing all that many things the OS isn't equipped to do out of the box and if you don't have any weird hardware.

by croh 4y ago

I don't know what is the last time you used linux but lately there is great improvements in user experience. I know non-techie people using Linux Mint/ubuntu without any hassels.

butterNaN 4y ago

I'm the de facto IT support for my family and neighbours. They are using Pop OS for about 3 years now. It has been great from both their UX and my maintenance perspective. My father even did the 20.10 to 21.04 LTS upgrade himself! I highly doubt if windows would've been as smooth an experience. (Macs are out of question for us since none of us are rich!)

jeroenhd 4y ago
Windows upgrades go so smoothly they've been repackaged as updates. They're also highly fault resistant by default with automated rollbacks out of the box. I'm not saying Pop is bad, but Windows upgrades are super easy and user friendly (if you ignore the privacy risks that come with using Windows). I wish common Linux distros would pack something like system restore by default already! I know these tools (based on BTRFS/ZFS snapshots) exist and work great, but they need to be set up manually and most people won't.

rich_sasha 4y ago

I'm writing this from my Ubuntu desktop (LTE). Just a few months ago some update broke everything (graphics). Then somehow I fixed it, but it broke again on restart. It took best part of a week for me to fix. You might say it wasn't the best distribution for reliability, or that graphics with NVidia are always an issue etc. but the fact remains that, for me, for an OS to "just work out of the box", MacOS is much better. [I'm also not a Linux n00b, been using it for over a decade, though not an expert for sure]

prmoustache 4y ago
So basically you played with fire(nvidia) and got burned. There is one way to run nvidia stuff on Linux and have a decent experience: run a distro that actually support and has partnership with nvidia, which mean a distro like Redhat Enterprise Linux. It has long term support too. It is the same with Apple or windows if you start using shitty drivers from a shady brand you will run into issues at some point.
- rich_sasha 4y ago
  Well, that's one way to look at it: you need to carefully pick your distro, make sure it's compatible with your hardware, and so on. My way is rather: I don't want to even pollute my brain cache with that. I want a Computer with an Operating System that Just Work. Because for me tinkering with the setup of my desktop is not fun, the fun bit is what I do with a properly working computer. I'll pay a premium to Apple for that (though, mind you, MBP is competitively priced with similarly-performant laptops), and I'd pay that same premium to a laptop+Linux provider. Except... my confidence in the latter working well is lower. Because apart from fixing broken graphics drivers, I've also had to, in my days, debug: - package managers that somehow got themselves into a bad state - fight with linkers when trying to build fairly benign stuff on my desktop - don't even mention printing and many other things I don't even remember anymore.
  - prmoustache 4y ago
    >Well, that's one way to look at it: you need to carefully pick your distro, make sure it's compatible with your hardware, and so on. > >My way is rather: I don't want to even pollute my brain cache with that. I That is exactly what you did by choosing Apple. If you go on the redhat website and choose certified system you can pick your hardware from any vendor the same way you choose your Apple machine on the Apple store.
  - jeroenhd 4y ago
    I've had more luck printing from Linux than any other operating system, funnily enough. It just seems to work, no 3GB of driver software or manual browsing for INF files required. The UI is a bit clunky when you want to configure advanced settings but it's no worse than your average HP driver in my opinion. My experiments with macOS actually had the same problems you list, though I haven't tried printing more than once. MacOS comes with ancient Unix tools and you end up downloading half a Linux install over Brew when you try to compile stuff, and now you have added an external package manager you need to deal with to as system that doesn't really support one. Mg experience with package managers is that if you ignore the warnings (adding --force to overrule errors, adding external repositories that replace system libraries or aren't maintained, mess with config files to override same defaults, mix package managers (apt+global pip = hell)) you won't see them break themselves. I've broken Windows installs by messing with my system in similar ways, though there never seems to be a solution when this happens other than a reinstall. Trouble mostly comes from outdated, misguided guides found on Google that'll ignore any best practices for your opersting system and set things up Their Way, turning your install into a ticking time bomb when the writers have long had to reinstall their operating system without ever updating their guides. All operating systems I've tried are bad in their own way. Windows worked great until 8 came out. MacOS works well enough if you don't mind Apple's control/decisions/limitations and accept the risk of buying a faulty device that the company will deny all the way up to class lawsuit settlements. Linux works well if you're lucky with your hardware. The BSDs work well if you don't plan on doing all that many things the OS isn't equipped to do out of the box and if you don't have any weird hardware.