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The elephant in the room: DDG's search results are primarily sourced from Bing. Unfortunately, as long as DDG depends on third-party crawlers, the suggestions

The elephant in the room: DDG's search results are primarily sourced from Bing. Unfortunately, as long as DDG depends on third-party crawlers, the suggestions to improve search results (& "the algorithm") seem far-fetched & naive. (DDG does have its own crawler, DuckDuckBot, but apparently it's only used for very specific functionality.) https://help.duckduckgo.com/duckduckgo-help-pages/results/sources/ https://help.duckduckgo.com/duckduckgo-help-pages/results/so... > For DuckDuckGo, it may be tricky to resolve the issue permanently as long as it relies on Bing. https://torrentfreak.com/duckduckgo-restores-pirate-sites-and-points-to-bing-220419/ https://torrentfreak.com/duckduckgo-restores-pirate-sites-an... > According to various online forums, the best way to ensure your site gets indexed by DuckDuckGo is to submit it to Bing and Yandex. https://www.jessesquires.com/blog/2022/03/25/my-website-disappeared-from-bing-and-duckduckgo/ https://www.jessesquires.com/blog/2022/03/25/my-website-disa...

fsflover 4y ago
> DDG's search results are primarily sourced from Bing That isn't an accurate characterization of what we do now. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32360642 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32360642
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- joegahona 4y ago
  This seems to be the gist of the response you've linked: > mobile searches are the largest category of searches, and local searches are the largest category of searches within mobile. Instead our local search content is a combination of our own indexes in partnership with Apple, TripAdvisor, and others. This suggests Bing isn't used for local searches, but it is still used for mobile and desktop searches that aren't local. If I am searching for a tech problem or how to tie a knot or recipes or the history of hair metal, I'm getting Bing results wrapped in DDG. Is that inaccurate? Is Bing still used for searches that aren't local searches?
krmboya 4y ago
Moved from DDG to Brave Search about 6 months ago and haven't missed DDG at all. I can still use the !bangs I was accustomed to. Given that Brave uses its own search index, and only a few times do I need to fall back to Google, it feels good to have a measure of independence from the Google/Bing dominance in search
- tommica 4y ago
  Brave search does feel like a differens search engine, i really appreciate their goggles and forum post features.
- jxramos 4y ago
  is this related to the browser or do they have a standalone website for search? Never knew about it, looks like its https://search.brave.com/ https://search.brave.com/
  - krmboya 4y ago
    It's standalone website. Not tied to their browser
- potamic 4y ago
  Brave automatically changed my default search engine on private tabs to their search. I don't know if it was a bug or feature, but this kind of behaviour keeps me wary from committing.
  - moralestapia 4y ago
    Anecdata for anecdata: that didn't happen with me, I'm still on DDG.
- malnourish 4y ago
  Similarly, I moved to Kagi and couldn't be happier
  - 4y ago
echelon 4y ago
Why hasn't DDG grown internal search competency? It's been years, and there's still no sign of search being a first class concern at DDG. That seems like a number one must have for any search product company. Rebranded Bing with a new interface isn't hard tech. It risks so much on the business relationship. They should be staffing for this yesterday. Hire more search folks, DDG! Also, ditch that awfully long name.
- deepstack 4y ago
  would also like to hear from DDG ppl. On another note, Really appreciate DDG's map functionality using apple map with iaxm query parameter set "maps" and q set to whatever you want to search for: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Africa&iaxm=maps https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Africa&iaxm=maps It is refreshing to be able to use a usable map on tor without having to accept google big term of service.
- dazc 4y ago
  > Why hasn't DDG grown internal search competency? Maybe because it's already a profitable business model as it is?
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 4y ago
  Because internal search costs a lot of money. Google has millions of search servers costing billions of dollars just for the hardware.
goombacloud 4y ago
Maybe they could partner up with https://www.mojeek.com/ https://www.mojeek.com/ as an independent search engine with own crawling technology.
- ColinHayhurst 4y ago
  They are welcome too, but perhaps are restrained by their stakeholders. Looking at the suggestions in the blog, and for transparency - Mojeek CEO: > Stop trying to look like Google. Agreed. We and our users still believe that "10 blue links" have great value. But drowning these out with too many of things like Ads, Videos and Answers on the page helps pretty much just Google. > Arrange that algorithm to make it less vulnerable to SEO hacking. Admittedly we don't yet have that problem yet. Still there are plenty of measures that we provide, and will expand upon to mitigate that. Without going into details these generally amount to giving users, and API customers, more control over searching and ranking. > Discard AI-generated text. A good idea. But can also be done on the SERPs. Do users benefit from AI answers? Mojeek is a search Engine not an answer Engine. > Results in other languages. Bing? > New opportunities. DuckDuckGo is doing a great job of providing new and improved privacy products. We stand with them on many things. I am sure they appreciate the opportunity also in providing more informational (search) diversity from and with a fully independent search stack (infrastructure, crawler, index, ranking).
tibyat 4y ago
richardsocher 4y ago
We've indexed billions of pages already at you.com to avoid this situation. The majority of our apps like Stackoverflow and Medium etc, we've indexed ourselves.

fsflover 4y ago

> DDG's search results are primarily sourced from Bing That isn't an accurate characterization of what we do now. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32360642 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32360642

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
joegahona 4y ago
This seems to be the gist of the response you've linked: > mobile searches are the largest category of searches, and local searches are the largest category of searches within mobile. Instead our local search content is a combination of our own indexes in partnership with Apple, TripAdvisor, and others. This suggests Bing isn't used for local searches, but it is still used for mobile and desktop searches that aren't local. If I am searching for a tech problem or how to tie a knot or recipes or the history of hair metal, I'm getting Bing results wrapped in DDG. Is that inaccurate? Is Bing still used for searches that aren't local searches?

krmboya 4y ago

Moved from DDG to Brave Search about 6 months ago and haven't missed DDG at all. I can still use the !bangs I was accustomed to. Given that Brave uses its own search index, and only a few times do I need to fall back to Google, it feels good to have a measure of independence from the Google/Bing dominance in search

tommica 4y ago
Brave search does feel like a differens search engine, i really appreciate their goggles and forum post features.
jxramos 4y ago
is this related to the browser or do they have a standalone website for search? Never knew about it, looks like its https://search.brave.com/ https://search.brave.com/
- krmboya 4y ago
  It's standalone website. Not tied to their browser
potamic 4y ago
Brave automatically changed my default search engine on private tabs to their search. I don't know if it was a bug or feature, but this kind of behaviour keeps me wary from committing.
- moralestapia 4y ago
  Anecdata for anecdata: that didn't happen with me, I'm still on DDG.
malnourish 4y ago
Similarly, I moved to Kagi and couldn't be happier
- 4y ago

echelon 4y ago

Why hasn't DDG grown internal search competency? It's been years, and there's still no sign of search being a first class concern at DDG. That seems like a number one must have for any search product company. Rebranded Bing with a new interface isn't hard tech. It risks so much on the business relationship. They should be staffing for this yesterday. Hire more search folks, DDG! Also, ditch that awfully long name.

deepstack 4y ago
would also like to hear from DDG ppl. On another note, Really appreciate DDG's map functionality using apple map with iaxm query parameter set "maps" and q set to whatever you want to search for: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Africa&iaxm=maps https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Africa&iaxm=maps It is refreshing to be able to use a usable map on tor without having to accept google big term of service.
dazc 4y ago
> Why hasn't DDG grown internal search competency? Maybe because it's already a profitable business model as it is?
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 4y ago
Because internal search costs a lot of money. Google has millions of search servers costing billions of dollars just for the hardware.

goombacloud 4y ago

Maybe they could partner up with https://www.mojeek.com/ https://www.mojeek.com/ as an independent search engine with own crawling technology.

ColinHayhurst 4y ago
They are welcome too, but perhaps are restrained by their stakeholders. Looking at the suggestions in the blog, and for transparency - Mojeek CEO: > Stop trying to look like Google. Agreed. We and our users still believe that "10 blue links" have great value. But drowning these out with too many of things like Ads, Videos and Answers on the page helps pretty much just Google. > Arrange that algorithm to make it less vulnerable to SEO hacking. Admittedly we don't yet have that problem yet. Still there are plenty of measures that we provide, and will expand upon to mitigate that. Without going into details these generally amount to giving users, and API customers, more control over searching and ranking. > Discard AI-generated text. A good idea. But can also be done on the SERPs. Do users benefit from AI answers? Mojeek is a search Engine not an answer Engine. > Results in other languages. Bing? > New opportunities. DuckDuckGo is doing a great job of providing new and improved privacy products. We stand with them on many things. I am sure they appreciate the opportunity also in providing more informational (search) diversity from and with a fully independent search stack (infrastructure, crawler, index, ranking).

tibyat 4y ago

richardsocher 4y ago

We've indexed billions of pages already at you.com to avoid this situation. The majority of our apps like Stackoverflow and Medium etc, we've indexed ourselves.