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A naive question: we have a lot of wealthy people sympathetic to the idea of a minimal government, why aren't they buying legislation that prevents this blatant

A naive question: we have a lot of wealthy people sympathetic to the idea of a minimal government, why aren't they buying legislation that prevents this blatant corruption?

russell 15y ago
"Minimal government" is just a slogan used by the people who are buying our government. Their idea of minimal government is eliminating the EPA, fewer bank regulations, and the like. Homeland security, more IP laws, restrictions on privacy? Oh, we have to make some sacrifices for our own security
- politician 15y ago
  Indeed, the other day I heard some guy on the radio talking about how garbage collection should be provided by the private marketplace rather than as a government service paid for by taxes. Look, that might be a cute experiment in New Hampshire where the population is described in terms of villages, but not in any serious metropolis. I probably should have called in and explained the tragedy of the commons.
  - anamax 15y ago
    > Look, that might be a cute experiment in New Hampshire where the population is described in terms of villages San Jose's garbage service is nominally provided by a private firm. What is it about garbage service that you think requires govt employees?
    - anigbrowl 15y ago
      San Jose's garbage service is nominally provided by a private firm. Under contract to the city. The competition happens at the tender level, it would be highly inefficient to have multiple garbage pickup companies vying for the business of each individual resident. Past experience with private fire engine companies and the like suggests that this would end badly.
      - anamax 15y ago
        > it would be highly inefficient to have multiple garbage pickup companies vying for the business of each individual resident. Why the assumption that that's the only way to have multiple garbage companies? If something is actually too inefficient, the costs will stop them and they'll come up with a plan that is "efficient enough". > Past experience with private fire engine companies Is irrelevant because the business model is completely different. Also, that experience is overstated by folks pushing a monolithic model. History is written by the victors.
        anigbrowl 15y ago
        Fine, show me somewhere that doesn't use a tender-contract model. If something is actually too inefficient, the costs will stop them and they'll come up with a plan that is "efficient enough". Why do you think companies seek monopoly concessions, or that distributors seek same from producers in the private marketplace? That's what the current litigation over trash disposal contracts in Sf turns upon: http://www.sfexaminer.com/local/2011/07/san-franciscos-garbage-deal-challenged-waste-management http://www.sfexaminer.com/local/2011/07/san-franciscos-garba... Meanwhile, other approaches to competition in the garbage industry have historically proved problematic: http://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/cb_7.htm http://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/cb_7.htm http://clevelandmob.com/warofwaste.html http://clevelandmob.com/warofwaste.html http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2008/november/galante_110408 http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2008/november/galante_110408
        anamax 15y ago
        > Fine, show me somewhere that doesn't use a tender-contract model. That's a different issue. Politics.... >> If something is actually too inefficient, the costs will stop them and they'll come up with a plan that is "efficient enough". > Why do you think companies seek monopoly concessions, or that distributors seek same from producers in the private marketplace? To avoid competition. Of course that question isn't related to the statement quoted. Yes, some garbage companies are/were mobbed up. Since some of them had city franchises, it's unclear why you'd bring that up. In any event, it's as irrelevant as the fact that the mob engages in other biz.
  - sbalea 15y ago
    In my suburban New Jersey neighborhood, garbage collection is handled by two private companies. Granted, we're not a serious metropolis, but we're not exactly a village either. The system appears to work, trash gets collected, and whenever my provider attempts to jack up rates I call and threaten to switch and they play ball.

A naive question: we have a lot of wealthy people sympathetic to the idea of a minimal government, why aren't they buying legislation that prevents this blatant corruption?

russell 15y ago

"Minimal government" is just a slogan used by the people who are buying our government. Their idea of minimal government is eliminating the EPA, fewer bank regulations, and the like. Homeland security, more IP laws, restrictions on privacy? Oh, we have to make some sacrifices for our own security

politician 15y ago
Indeed, the other day I heard some guy on the radio talking about how garbage collection should be provided by the private marketplace rather than as a government service paid for by taxes. Look, that might be a cute experiment in New Hampshire where the population is described in terms of villages, but not in any serious metropolis. I probably should have called in and explained the tragedy of the commons.
- anamax 15y ago
  > Look, that might be a cute experiment in New Hampshire where the population is described in terms of villages San Jose's garbage service is nominally provided by a private firm. What is it about garbage service that you think requires govt employees?
  - anigbrowl 15y ago
    San Jose's garbage service is nominally provided by a private firm. Under contract to the city. The competition happens at the tender level, it would be highly inefficient to have multiple garbage pickup companies vying for the business of each individual resident. Past experience with private fire engine companies and the like suggests that this would end badly.
    - anamax 15y ago
      > it would be highly inefficient to have multiple garbage pickup companies vying for the business of each individual resident. Why the assumption that that's the only way to have multiple garbage companies? If something is actually too inefficient, the costs will stop them and they'll come up with a plan that is "efficient enough". > Past experience with private fire engine companies Is irrelevant because the business model is completely different. Also, that experience is overstated by folks pushing a monolithic model. History is written by the victors.
      - anigbrowl 15y ago
        Fine, show me somewhere that doesn't use a tender-contract model. If something is actually too inefficient, the costs will stop them and they'll come up with a plan that is "efficient enough". Why do you think companies seek monopoly concessions, or that distributors seek same from producers in the private marketplace? That's what the current litigation over trash disposal contracts in Sf turns upon: http://www.sfexaminer.com/local/2011/07/san-franciscos-garbage-deal-challenged-waste-management http://www.sfexaminer.com/local/2011/07/san-franciscos-garba... Meanwhile, other approaches to competition in the garbage industry have historically proved problematic: http://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/cb_7.htm http://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/cb_7.htm http://clevelandmob.com/warofwaste.html http://clevelandmob.com/warofwaste.html http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2008/november/galante_110408 http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2008/november/galante_110408
        anamax 15y ago
        > Fine, show me somewhere that doesn't use a tender-contract model. That's a different issue. Politics.... >> If something is actually too inefficient, the costs will stop them and they'll come up with a plan that is "efficient enough". > Why do you think companies seek monopoly concessions, or that distributors seek same from producers in the private marketplace? To avoid competition. Of course that question isn't related to the statement quoted. Yes, some garbage companies are/were mobbed up. Since some of them had city franchises, it's unclear why you'd bring that up. In any event, it's as irrelevant as the fact that the mob engages in other biz.
- sbalea 15y ago
  In my suburban New Jersey neighborhood, garbage collection is handled by two private companies. Granted, we're not a serious metropolis, but we're not exactly a village either. The system appears to work, trash gets collected, and whenever my provider attempts to jack up rates I call and threaten to switch and they play ball.