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>committing genocide in Ukraine. False. The current actions are not genocide by any means. Even raping of civilians is unproved. Ukraine even fired their human

• wiseowise 4y ago
  > Another false: Putin never claimed Ukraine doesn't exist. https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/lseih/2020/07/01/there-is-no-ukraine-fact-checking-the-kremlins-version-of-ukrainian-history/ https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/lseih/2020/07/01/there-is-no-ukraine...
  • vogre 4y ago
    Never in public speech that was intended to be be published.
• _kbh_ 4y ago
  > False. The current actions are not genocide by any means. Despite popular belief genocide is not what the pro Russians want it to be, and Russias actions clearly fit within the UN's well defined definition of genocide. >> In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such: >> Killing members of the group; >> Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; >> Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; >> Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; >> Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group. We already have evidence of many of these individual things (of which any constitutes genocide). The Russians have already been forcibly deporting children and sending them to Russia, so point 5 is met. The Russians are on video castrating Ukrainians so we have point 4 met. The Russians have been indiscriminately bombing civilians so we have points 1 and 2 easily. > Even raping of civilians is unproved. I see you avoided the whole indiscriminate killing of civilians, of which Russians are already in jail for. It seems like you wouldn't be satisfied without video evidence of these crimes, but don't worry the Russians the will answer for their war crimes in time. > False. The expansion of NATO to the east, 2014 anti-russian coup in Ukraine, the refusal to follow to Minsk agreements(guaranteed by western leaders, who failed them too) and militarization of Ukraine were the major reasons of the events. Why does Ukraine have to abide by the Minks agreement but Russia is free to wilfully for years violate the Budapest agreement where Russia promised to not invade Ukraine of threaten its territorial borders in exchange for Ukraine giving up its nukes?. None of these are "reasons for these events", what all these are is Russias excuses to try and dominate another country and eliminate their statehood. > Another false: Putin never claimed Ukraine doesn't exist. Here's a source from the literal Russian media. https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/877224 https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/877224 Here's a quote literally from Putin. `When it came to Ukraine, Putin flared up. Addressing Bush, he said: "You understand, George, that Ukraine is not even a state! What is Ukraine? Part of its territories is Eastern Europe, and some, and significant, are donated by us!"` Everything you said is false, is true, strange that.
  • vogre 4y ago
    > with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group Is a key sentence here. Your points are invalid because none of these actions(even if they really took place, because you know about them from biased source) were caused by intent to destroy Ukrainians as group. >I see you avoided the whole indiscriminate killing of civilians, of which Russians are already in jail for. Because the indiscriminate killing of civilians is a common thing in wars. It's nearly impossible to prove that killing of civilian was indiscriminate. About jailing - of course you can jail prisoners of war, but it does not prove anything. Ukrainian SBU, like Russian FSB is descendant of KGB. They can get any testimony they need, especially from helpless prisoner of war. >Why does Ukraine have to abide by the Minks agreement but Russia is free to wilfully for years violate the Budapest agreement where Russia promised to not invade Ukraine of threaten its territorial borders in exchange for Ukraine giving up its nukes? First, memorandum is not an agreement. These things actually don't oblige you to anything. It's like "we talked, and there are the thing we said". Second, Putin thinks that US broke the first point of that memorandum by inciting the 2014 coup. Because Ukraine is not sovereign now - it is fully controlled by the West. So old rules are not working anymore. And third, Minsk agreements were signed after the annexation of Crymea, so Budapest Memorandum was already broken. If you do not intend to follow agreements, you don't sign them or you are liar. You don't say "hey you broke our last agreements so i can broke these". About this article https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/877224 https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/877224. It's funny that you brought article from 2008(14 years ago), which clearly states that Putin told Bush that he will attack if Ukraine or Georgia joins NATO. 14 years later he attacked and everyone: "look! Putin is liar!". He told you about consequences 14 years ago!
    • _kbh_ 4y ago
      > Is a key sentence here. Your points are invalid because none of these actions(even if they really took place, because you know about them from biased source) were caused by intent to destroy Ukrainians as group They all took place, Putins stated goal to remove Ukraine as a state and the idea of being Ukrainian. Russia says this very upfront and blatantly they don’t try and hide it despite how much more work it makes for its propaganda arm. Let me guess your only unbiased source is Russia?. The same source that believes in Ukrainian super soldiers and Ukrainian black magic battalions because they failed to take city 300km from their border. > About jailing - of course you can jail prisoners of war, but it does not prove anything. Ukrainian SBU, like Russian FSB is descendant of KGB. They can get any testimony they need, especially from helpless prisoner of war. You seem not convinced even by a court sentence, what would you even convinced by? At this point in time you seem to require impossible evidence for something that we have clear video and photo graphic evidence for. Unless you think a shopping centre is a valid military target?. > Second, Putin thinks that US broke the first point of that memorandum by inciting the 2014 coup. Because Ukraine is not sovereign now - it is fully controlled by the West. So old rules are not working anymore So because Ukraine decided and ousted their Russian puppet all the way back to Moscow and decided they wanted to have someone pro Europe they don’t deserve sovereignty?. Btw the only person who calls the 2014 revolution a coup is the Russian puppet who got ousted and his Russian handlers. > And third, Minsk agreements were signed after the annexation of Crymea, so Budapest Memorandum was already broken. If you do not intend to follow agreements, you don't sign them or you are liar. You don't say "hey you broke our last agreements so i can broke these". Yes Russia is a liar, that is painfully obvious they never follow any agreements they make (binding or not) and they always shout scream and get their supporters to stamp their feet when others act the same way. Why should anyone believer anything Russia says or sign or abide by any treaty Russia decides when Russia themselves don’t?. > which clearly states that Putin told Bush that he will attack if Ukraine or Georgia joins NATO. 14 years later he attacked and everyone: "look! Putin is liar!". He told you about consequences 14 years ago! Neither joined NATO and he would never attack if they did, it’s why all the former Soviet states try to join NATO because Russia is incapable and unwilling to even blink in the direction of a NATO member. It’s also probably why Russia tried to force all the post soviet states to not join NATO so they can go pillaging again in the future.