5 ms·

This is pretty much my take on it as well. Once you hit adulthood, most able-bodied, able-minded people are expected to be "contributing members of society". B

by maltyr 4y ago

This is pretty much my take on it as well. Once you hit adulthood, most able-bodied, able-minded people are expected to be "contributing members of society". But that definition is pretty nebulous - it doesn't have to be society's definition - whatever you set to be your own expectations for success. If you repeatedly fail to meet those standards you set for yourself, it can cause you to turn this feeling of pain and frustration from failure inwards, towards yourself. At some point, you simply withdraw entirely, because you are afraid of feeling the pain of failure that you trained yourself to associate with attempting to meet your goals. This is often compounded by well-meaning people trying to shame you into doing something: "You can't live like this! You HAVE to get a job!" - sort of "support" from family members or friends. Or, they might throw blame: "Why don't you work harder? Stop wasting your time doing nothing!" I think this may be a significant factor on why this symptom appears much more common in Japan, a mono-cultural society with very high expectations to conform. Also perhaps why it's growing overall, as the general prospects for younger people seem to be worse than the previous generation across most developed countries. However, I don't think you can treat the chemistry to "fix" social withdrawal. I believe it's linked to other mental health issues, like depression, anxiety, and low self-esteem. Treating those issues, primarily through therapy, is required first, before working on fixing social withdrawal, which at that point should be straightforward.

HPsquared 4y ago
I think you hit the nail on the head mentioning monoculture. If there's only one way to be successful and accepted, anyone who doesn't fit the mold simply drops out. In a more varied society there are more alternative "acceptable" paths available to those people who didn't fit the mold for the primary path.
revolvingocelot 4y ago
>I don't think you can treat the chemistry to "fix" social withdrawal Oh, I'll bet you a fat R&D contract and a promised economic boom that you can. And you probably "can", for a given value of ""fix"". It'll just be another neoliberal pressure-washer pointed at the weathered rock face of our collective humanity. See, it's still just fine!
nradov 4y ago
You're not wrong, but some fraction of the hikikomori could also be treated effectively through tough love. Their behavior is being enabled by parents who allow them to live at home, set low expectations, and fail to enforce consequences. If parents kick them out then they'll be forced to sink or swim. This may seem harsh, but those parents will die eventually and the hikikomori will eventually have to fend for themselves no matter what. Better to learn how to live in society sooner than later.
- yata69420 4y ago
  > If parents kick them out then they'll be forced to sink or swim. If you've ever lived in or near a US city, the "sink" outcome is actually quite common. > Better to learn how to live in society sooner than later. Your approach converts a family struggle into a community problem. I don't see why society would encourage families that can support hikikomori for some number of years to offload all of them onto society immediately, even if some would successfully "swim".
  - nradov 4y ago
    The community will have to deal with those people eventually. Putting it off just makes things worse. Some of those shut-ins would do well enlisting in the military, if they can pass the medical screening.
    - yata69420 4y ago
      Yes, eventually, and we will need programs for people in their 40s+ who have been cared for by their now deceased families. I suspect you're going to need hot pockets, video games, cots, showers, and they'll do ok. Maybe by then they'll be happy they're in a community together because they've been community deprived their entire lives. Who knows, this is a new problem. But if you force them to "sink or swim" now, you're going to have a raging generation of 20-somethings with nothing to lose and contempt for the society and families that abandoned them. Also, did you notice the planet is literally burning? For personal reasons, I'd like to keep society going a little longer. If we could not start a Joker breeding program, that'd be great.

by maltyr 4y ago

HPsquared 4y ago

I think you hit the nail on the head mentioning monoculture. If there's only one way to be successful and accepted, anyone who doesn't fit the mold simply drops out. In a more varied society there are more alternative "acceptable" paths available to those people who didn't fit the mold for the primary path.

revolvingocelot 4y ago

>I don't think you can treat the chemistry to "fix" social withdrawal Oh, I'll bet you a fat R&D contract and a promised economic boom that you can. And you probably "can", for a given value of ""fix"". It'll just be another neoliberal pressure-washer pointed at the weathered rock face of our collective humanity. See, it's still just fine!

nradov 4y ago

You're not wrong, but some fraction of the hikikomori could also be treated effectively through tough love. Their behavior is being enabled by parents who allow them to live at home, set low expectations, and fail to enforce consequences. If parents kick them out then they'll be forced to sink or swim. This may seem harsh, but those parents will die eventually and the hikikomori will eventually have to fend for themselves no matter what. Better to learn how to live in society sooner than later.

yata69420 4y ago
> If parents kick them out then they'll be forced to sink or swim. If you've ever lived in or near a US city, the "sink" outcome is actually quite common. > Better to learn how to live in society sooner than later. Your approach converts a family struggle into a community problem. I don't see why society would encourage families that can support hikikomori for some number of years to offload all of them onto society immediately, even if some would successfully "swim".
- nradov 4y ago
  The community will have to deal with those people eventually. Putting it off just makes things worse. Some of those shut-ins would do well enlisting in the military, if they can pass the medical screening.
  - yata69420 4y ago
    Yes, eventually, and we will need programs for people in their 40s+ who have been cared for by their now deceased families. I suspect you're going to need hot pockets, video games, cots, showers, and they'll do ok. Maybe by then they'll be happy they're in a community together because they've been community deprived their entire lives. Who knows, this is a new problem. But if you force them to "sink or swim" now, you're going to have a raging generation of 20-somethings with nothing to lose and contempt for the society and families that abandoned them. Also, did you notice the planet is literally burning? For personal reasons, I'd like to keep society going a little longer. If we could not start a Joker breeding program, that'd be great.