5 ms·

All things you write - looks like you getting you data from conservative media. "assigned the wrong body at birth" - even in trans community considered huge sim

All things you write - looks like you getting you data from conservative media. "assigned the wrong body at birth" - even in trans community considered huge simplification and wrong narrative. It's used only to explain the feeling to people who knows nothing about the issue. Gender dysphoria - yes, people suffer form it. Transition is the way to lower this suffering. That's the 'cochlear implant' equivalent from your example.

JumpCrisscross 4y ago
> looks like you getting you data from conservative media Not OP. But this seems unfair. Not only does the language surround trans persons vary from decade to decade, city to city, it’s also—understandably—guarded. Someone far from knowing “nothing about the issue,” and moreover, wishes to learn more, could innocuously use language that is offensive in some circles but tolerated—even encouraged—in others.
poszlem 4y ago
I am sorry, but no, that's not coming from the conservative media. See for example "sex assigned at birth" https://service-manual.nhs.uk/content/inclusive-content/sex-gender-and-sexuality https://service-manual.nhs.uk/content/inclusive-content/sex-... as an example from a mainstream medical institution, the British National Health Service. And transition is not "the cochlear implant", the implant would be "an implant that makes you not dysphoric". Transition is "learning how to live as a deaf person".
- pmyteh 4y ago
  That NHS data collection recommendation says nothing about "wrong body", though. They're trying to elicit accurate information about something potentially medically relevant (assigned biological sex). Their concern is that if you ask a trans person simply "male or female" you'll get an answer that either reflects the gender someone is living in, or the sex on their birth certificate. The former is useless if you're trying to assess the risk of chromosomal disorders, the latter if you're trying to work out how to politely address them.
curious-im 4y ago
> "learning how to live as a deaf person" This is what repression looks like. Before coming out, while you try to live as you assigned gender - that's living as a deaf person, pretty literally as derealization and depersonalization are kind of 'deafining'. As with deaf kid - you fix the body, not the mind, so with gender dysphoria you fix the body first. Maybe it's just me, but fixing identities scares me much more than fixing the body. There was studies in which trans people were asked if they would want to be consent with their assigned sex (i.e. trans woman to be happy as a man) - most don't. After transition almost none would agree to change it for 'no dysphoria, assigned sex at birth'. 'Fixing' such people sounds like a very cruel and scary idea.
- Teever 4y ago
  But sometimes deafness is the result of defects in the structure of the ear and sometimes it's the result of defects in the auditory nerve, or other structures in the brain. In some instances we provide a prosthetic that overcomes the defects of the ear, like a traditional hearing aid, or surgery that corrects those defects, and in others we augment the person with a cochlear implant that bypasses the issue with the nerve. We don't yet have the ability to directly modify the brain with surgery or implants for deafness but I'm sure that we would if we could. It's interesting that we're talking about deafness because there are many instances of deaf people with heredity causes for their deafness opposed to testing their children with new, effective treatments like cochlear implants because they view it as impinging on their deaf culture. I think that there are many parallels between this and the developing trans culture which will result in trans people being resistant to more effective, less invasive treatments to cure them of their affliction. Why do certain maladies develop strong identity politics while others don't? There isn't a diabetic identity, or a halitosis community, so why these ones?
  - curious-im 4y ago
    I guess my problem with your view of 'transness' is that you view it as illness or dysfunction. And it's not that. Turning transwoman to a man is equivalent of turning man to opposite gender in a bad case of gynecomastia. That's not the mind that is a problem, I hope you understand my point. Dysphoria goes deeper than just bodily dysmorphia, it's about how you see yourself, not only your body. So changing my mind to make me something I'm not (a man) sounds like a horror - some kind of upgraded lobotomy. That's much more invasive than any surgery. And it's not about culture, it's about understanding that people identities is not a part that you can/should fix. And speaking about data and science, there is pretty clear evidence that trans people who receive proper care (hormones) and accepted by society live normal happy life as the rest of the people.

JumpCrisscross 4y ago

> looks like you getting you data from conservative media Not OP. But this seems unfair. Not only does the language surround trans persons vary from decade to decade, city to city, it’s also—understandably—guarded. Someone far from knowing “nothing about the issue,” and moreover, wishes to learn more, could innocuously use language that is offensive in some circles but tolerated—even encouraged—in others.

poszlem 4y ago

I am sorry, but no, that's not coming from the conservative media. See for example "sex assigned at birth" https://service-manual.nhs.uk/content/inclusive-content/sex-gender-and-sexuality https://service-manual.nhs.uk/content/inclusive-content/sex-... as an example from a mainstream medical institution, the British National Health Service. And transition is not "the cochlear implant", the implant would be "an implant that makes you not dysphoric". Transition is "learning how to live as a deaf person".

pmyteh 4y ago
That NHS data collection recommendation says nothing about "wrong body", though. They're trying to elicit accurate information about something potentially medically relevant (assigned biological sex). Their concern is that if you ask a trans person simply "male or female" you'll get an answer that either reflects the gender someone is living in, or the sex on their birth certificate. The former is useless if you're trying to assess the risk of chromosomal disorders, the latter if you're trying to work out how to politely address them.

curious-im 4y ago

> "learning how to live as a deaf person" This is what repression looks like. Before coming out, while you try to live as you assigned gender - that's living as a deaf person, pretty literally as derealization and depersonalization are kind of 'deafining'. As with deaf kid - you fix the body, not the mind, so with gender dysphoria you fix the body first. Maybe it's just me, but fixing identities scares me much more than fixing the body. There was studies in which trans people were asked if they would want to be consent with their assigned sex (i.e. trans woman to be happy as a man) - most don't. After transition almost none would agree to change it for 'no dysphoria, assigned sex at birth'. 'Fixing' such people sounds like a very cruel and scary idea.

Teever 4y ago
But sometimes deafness is the result of defects in the structure of the ear and sometimes it's the result of defects in the auditory nerve, or other structures in the brain. In some instances we provide a prosthetic that overcomes the defects of the ear, like a traditional hearing aid, or surgery that corrects those defects, and in others we augment the person with a cochlear implant that bypasses the issue with the nerve. We don't yet have the ability to directly modify the brain with surgery or implants for deafness but I'm sure that we would if we could. It's interesting that we're talking about deafness because there are many instances of deaf people with heredity causes for their deafness opposed to testing their children with new, effective treatments like cochlear implants because they view it as impinging on their deaf culture. I think that there are many parallels between this and the developing trans culture which will result in trans people being resistant to more effective, less invasive treatments to cure them of their affliction. Why do certain maladies develop strong identity politics while others don't? There isn't a diabetic identity, or a halitosis community, so why these ones?
- curious-im 4y ago
  I guess my problem with your view of 'transness' is that you view it as illness or dysfunction. And it's not that. Turning transwoman to a man is equivalent of turning man to opposite gender in a bad case of gynecomastia. That's not the mind that is a problem, I hope you understand my point. Dysphoria goes deeper than just bodily dysmorphia, it's about how you see yourself, not only your body. So changing my mind to make me something I'm not (a man) sounds like a horror - some kind of upgraded lobotomy. That's much more invasive than any surgery. And it's not about culture, it's about understanding that people identities is not a part that you can/should fix. And speaking about data and science, there is pretty clear evidence that trans people who receive proper care (hormones) and accepted by society live normal happy life as the rest of the people.