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This is a very myopic view of what it’s like for the elderly and less tech savvy. Most aren’t capable of telling the difference and yet they constantly find the

by vlozko 4y ago

This is a very myopic view of what it’s like for the elderly and less tech savvy. Most aren’t capable of telling the difference and yet they constantly find themselves unknowingly getting scammed. I take it you’ve never had to clean out a horribly malware infested computer for a mother-in-law before?

unity1001 4y ago
The argument betrays itself: How will that elderly and less tech savvy find and install another app store into their iPhone. If they are not tech savvy enough to be able to decide something is scammy, they are not tech savvy enough to install a freaking app store in their phone.
- d12bb 4y ago
  To get this great new shiny "game" just follow these steps to install it on your iPhone: ..
bloppe 4y ago
While this is certainly a problem, I don't accept it as an argument for why we all have to be locked in the walled garden. Just add a system setting that controls the walls. Let people disable it if they want, and tell your mother-and-law to never ever disable it no matter what. If you're worried that they'll be tricked into disabling it, then they probably should not be in control of a bank account or anything else serious anyway. Anyway, this isn't really relevant to this regulation. People already get scammed on iPhones all the time. It's silly to think that anybody would be more vulnerable as a result of the DMA.
- HatchedLake721 4y ago
  > tell your mother-and-law to never ever disable it no matter what Just like banks telling people they would never ask for their password/social security number. Works very well! /s
- vlozko 4y ago
  What happens when installing Facebook requires this setting to be disabled because it's only installable with their own App Store and rampant with privacy intrusions? > People already get scammed on iPhones all the time. I disagree with this assertion. It's certainly far less than those getting scammed on Mac/PC. > It's silly to think that anybody would be more vulnerable as a result of the DMA. There's a failure in imagination here in all the ways that companies will take advantage of this to the severe detriment of users, often with the user being clueless on how much they're compromised. What's undeniable is that this regulation dramatically increases the surface area of ways to scam people.
  - bloppe 4y ago
    There are so many other ways to deal with this danger that don't involve relinquishing everybody's freedom to a monopoly. You could just make the setting unchangeable except by an administrator account, then don't give your vulnerable relative the admin password. Boom, they're in the exact same position as they were before this regulation, but I don't have to deal with Apple's extortion if I don't want to. Win win!
    - runako 4y ago
      > setting unchangeable except by an administrator account Part of the regulation appears to require third-party apps to have the ability to use any APIs. Therefore, any malicious app will be able to present system dialogs that are (possibly) indistinguishable from official OS dialogs. This seems bad.
    - plandis 4y ago
      The thing that’s missing is that Facebook can now exploit people whereas previously Apple was forcing Facebook to act just slightly less shitty. If Facebook can bypass Apple then there is no leverage. Apple was enforcing some baseline of good behavior that developers no longer need to abide by. Apples subscription management is actually pretty consumer friendly, for example and I have to imagine plenty of companies are chomping at the bit to extract more money from shady tactics once they are no longer forced into decent behavior
- plandis 4y ago
  > I don't accept it as an argument for why we all have to be locked in the walled garden. You’re not, even today. You can of course choose not to use an iPhone
- l33t2328 4y ago
  You don’t have to be locked into a walled garden! You don’t have to buy an iPhone.
  - unity1001 4y ago
    Yep. They can just buy Android and get locked into another walled garden.

by vlozko 4y ago

unity1001 4y ago

The argument betrays itself: How will that elderly and less tech savvy find and install another app store into their iPhone. If they are not tech savvy enough to be able to decide something is scammy, they are not tech savvy enough to install a freaking app store in their phone.

d12bb 4y ago
To get this great new shiny "game" just follow these steps to install it on your iPhone: ..

bloppe 4y ago

While this is certainly a problem, I don't accept it as an argument for why we all have to be locked in the walled garden. Just add a system setting that controls the walls. Let people disable it if they want, and tell your mother-and-law to never ever disable it no matter what. If you're worried that they'll be tricked into disabling it, then they probably should not be in control of a bank account or anything else serious anyway. Anyway, this isn't really relevant to this regulation. People already get scammed on iPhones all the time. It's silly to think that anybody would be more vulnerable as a result of the DMA.

HatchedLake721 4y ago
> tell your mother-and-law to never ever disable it no matter what Just like banks telling people they would never ask for their password/social security number. Works very well! /s
vlozko 4y ago
What happens when installing Facebook requires this setting to be disabled because it's only installable with their own App Store and rampant with privacy intrusions? > People already get scammed on iPhones all the time. I disagree with this assertion. It's certainly far less than those getting scammed on Mac/PC. > It's silly to think that anybody would be more vulnerable as a result of the DMA. There's a failure in imagination here in all the ways that companies will take advantage of this to the severe detriment of users, often with the user being clueless on how much they're compromised. What's undeniable is that this regulation dramatically increases the surface area of ways to scam people.
- bloppe 4y ago
  There are so many other ways to deal with this danger that don't involve relinquishing everybody's freedom to a monopoly. You could just make the setting unchangeable except by an administrator account, then don't give your vulnerable relative the admin password. Boom, they're in the exact same position as they were before this regulation, but I don't have to deal with Apple's extortion if I don't want to. Win win!
  - runako 4y ago
    > setting unchangeable except by an administrator account Part of the regulation appears to require third-party apps to have the ability to use any APIs. Therefore, any malicious app will be able to present system dialogs that are (possibly) indistinguishable from official OS dialogs. This seems bad.
  - plandis 4y ago
    The thing that’s missing is that Facebook can now exploit people whereas previously Apple was forcing Facebook to act just slightly less shitty. If Facebook can bypass Apple then there is no leverage. Apple was enforcing some baseline of good behavior that developers no longer need to abide by. Apples subscription management is actually pretty consumer friendly, for example and I have to imagine plenty of companies are chomping at the bit to extract more money from shady tactics once they are no longer forced into decent behavior
plandis 4y ago
> I don't accept it as an argument for why we all have to be locked in the walled garden. You’re not, even today. You can of course choose not to use an iPhone
l33t2328 4y ago
You don’t have to be locked into a walled garden! You don’t have to buy an iPhone.
- unity1001 4y ago
  Yep. They can just buy Android and get locked into another walled garden.