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> Does anybody seriously think Karpathy would step down if FSD was really close to be released ?? Life is not only about work. I stepped down from the company

> Does anybody seriously think Karpathy would step down if FSD was really close to be released ?? Life is not only about work. I stepped down from the company I funded after 14 years, it never stopped growing after that. Some people just get bored after doing one thing for a long time and want to explore other areas, especially if they always had broad interests. > It really starts to feel like Tesla is a huge fraud which is about to be uncovered. I seriously doubt that my Model S will somehow stop working so well and turn out to be just a fake car after 5 years.

atonse 4y ago
This is what I say when people call Musk a showman and a fraud. I say that I must be imagining that I’ve actually been driving an EV for the past four years. I must’ve dreamt having to drive only 2 hours out of a 12 hour road trip. Bugs? Yea. Some really dangerous ones we all have read about. Manufacturing defects? Yup! Missed Deadlines? Hell yeah. But a fraud? Nope.
- TheAlchemist 4y ago
  You have a point. But did Theranos customers were thinking they were a fraud ? Nope - they were getting their blood test results done, although not in a way Theranos advertised. Of course the Tesla cars are not a fraud - they are actually pretty good - and for a long time they were the only EV out there. But it's no longer a case, and they are just becoming one of the 50 EV car makers out there. And Elon seems to know it - that's why he's insisting that the entire company insane valuation is tied to FSD, or whatever other futuristic product he can imagine. What I mean is that it's a fraud because it's an (maybe a bit above) average EV car making company, but it's CEO and the company itself insists it has extremely advance technology and products - which for now, doesn't exist. As a result, it's $ valuation is higher than most other car makers combined.
  - lazyjones 4y ago
    > and they are just becoming one of the 50 EV car makers out there. The Model Y was recently the best-selling car regardless of technology (i.e. overall best-selling passenger car) in several countries. Most notably, last month in China.
  - atonse 4y ago
    While I wouldn’t just naively say Musk is 100% innocent, most of these examples are cases of really bad estimation. Nobody would care about the slipped FSD timelines if they hadn’t paid for it. Tesla’s mistake was charging for it. I chose not to pay for it since I knew his estimates were rubbish. But most don’t. Doesn’t mean It’s fraud. They have been working on it. And you can see it in people’s cars.
    - lazyjones 4y ago
      > Nobody would care about the slipped FSD timelines if they hadn’t paid for it. Tesla’s mistake was charging for it. I paid for it (€2500 or 3000 I don't remember) and I'm not stressed. I have the world's best "autopilot" (EAP) already in my 5 years old car and it's getting better and better. Other vendors would have sold me a parking heater at that price (or higher).

atonse 4y ago

This is what I say when people call Musk a showman and a fraud. I say that I must be imagining that I’ve actually been driving an EV for the past four years. I must’ve dreamt having to drive only 2 hours out of a 12 hour road trip. Bugs? Yea. Some really dangerous ones we all have read about. Manufacturing defects? Yup! Missed Deadlines? Hell yeah. But a fraud? Nope.

TheAlchemist 4y ago
You have a point. But did Theranos customers were thinking they were a fraud ? Nope - they were getting their blood test results done, although not in a way Theranos advertised. Of course the Tesla cars are not a fraud - they are actually pretty good - and for a long time they were the only EV out there. But it's no longer a case, and they are just becoming one of the 50 EV car makers out there. And Elon seems to know it - that's why he's insisting that the entire company insane valuation is tied to FSD, or whatever other futuristic product he can imagine. What I mean is that it's a fraud because it's an (maybe a bit above) average EV car making company, but it's CEO and the company itself insists it has extremely advance technology and products - which for now, doesn't exist. As a result, it's $ valuation is higher than most other car makers combined.
- lazyjones 4y ago
  > and they are just becoming one of the 50 EV car makers out there. The Model Y was recently the best-selling car regardless of technology (i.e. overall best-selling passenger car) in several countries. Most notably, last month in China.
- atonse 4y ago
  While I wouldn’t just naively say Musk is 100% innocent, most of these examples are cases of really bad estimation. Nobody would care about the slipped FSD timelines if they hadn’t paid for it. Tesla’s mistake was charging for it. I chose not to pay for it since I knew his estimates were rubbish. But most don’t. Doesn’t mean It’s fraud. They have been working on it. And you can see it in people’s cars.
  - lazyjones 4y ago
    > Nobody would care about the slipped FSD timelines if they hadn’t paid for it. Tesla’s mistake was charging for it. I paid for it (€2500 or 3000 I don't remember) and I'm not stressed. I have the world's best "autopilot" (EAP) already in my 5 years old car and it's getting better and better. Other vendors would have sold me a parking heater at that price (or higher).