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I am wondering how many commenters actually read the (clickbait) article; BMW offers the option to purchase the feature permanently. The subscription is optiona

I am wondering how many commenters actually read the (clickbait) article; BMW offers the option to purchase the feature permanently. The subscription is optional. In any case, I see customer value in the optionality for this specific case. Perhaps the biggest reason for not purchasing heated seats is that customers have never used them in the past. Perhaps customers would otherwise not want to commit up-front for a feature they think they don't need or will only use 3-5 months out of the year.

headsoup 4y ago
This seems to imply that there would be some significant cost to BMW for implementing it, which is clearly not the case if it can be enabled on subscription. Otherwise just make headlights an optional subscription too because they're only used occasionally...
vr46 4y ago
That’s not the only perspective. Suppose everybody started building devices and vehicles packed with hardware that the user might never access or use? What happens to the device when it’s decommissioned? Is the breaker’s yard allowed to strip and part out the subscription-only hardware? Why should a thousand customers burn fuel pointlessly to haul round features they don’t use? Who owns the actual hardware in the event of not-subscribing? Suppose the unwanted hardware causes failures or interference elsewhere? It’s one thing to toggle feature flags, but I doubt the seats are heated by overclocking an Intel i9 on bootup.
kumarvvr 4y ago
If the option can be enabled in the future, doesn't that mean the car is having the hardware in the seats? (Heating coils, or what have you). Then, wouldn't that mean the customer is already paying for the hardware (cost of the car itself), and everything else is just greed?
- rkachowski 4y ago
  In addition to the cost of the energy required to actually heat the seats.
- blabberwocky 4y ago
  I think the distinction is semantic. The customer is paying for a feature set and usable spec which he receives. It’s not as if the customer pays some price expecting to use the heated seats and doesn’t get to do so. There’s an argument that this unnecessarily reduces everyone’s fuel efficiency due to the greater weight of the hardware, etc., but again this is more or less already captured in the advertised spec.
  - kumarvvr 4y ago
    The function is as per spec. But not the Bill of Materials, upon which the price is ultimately decided. What I mean to say is that a customer who chooses a spec that does not include heated seats, is supplied and charged for hardware that is not required in the spec.
invalidusernam3 4y ago
The fact that the hardware needed for the heated seats is already there and you're paying to turn it on is the weird part. For BMW, the cost of the heated seats must be very low if they're prepared to install them in all cars without knowing if the consumer will pay for the them or now. It's like buying a new laptop and paying to unlock additional RAM that is already installed, just not available. It would make me feel like the cost to the manufacturer is so low if they're prepared to risk it, that me paying for it after the fact feels like I'm getting ripped off (or that I've already actually payed for it in the original cost)
- discopicante 4y ago
  Maybe that's the point – more consistency in the manufacturing line might actually reduce costs for BMW and/or allow them to ship more vehicles faster. Perhaps the majority cost for the option is not for the equipment but for the labor involved in installing it.
  - grendelt 4y ago
    So then make it a standard feature. If it's cheap enough to install, it's cheap enough to include as a base model feature.
    - rob74 4y ago
      If BMW can earn more money by always installing it but making it optional rather than making it a standard feature, guess what BMW will do?
      - sebazzz 4y ago
        Does that consider the fact that people might choose a different car instead because this is not included by default? Or perhaps BMW bets on the Apple effect, that people won't chose a different car anyway.
  - saurik 4y ago
    Again, though, that labor is paid for either way if the installation was already done and it wasn't activated. Essentially, I think the argument being made here is that -- whether this was true or not -- when the heated seats had to be paid for up front to even have them in your car, you could tell yourself that they legitimately cost something (for the parts or the installation or whatever: that doesn't matter) related to how much you were paying for them... but if everyone has them and you are merely paying to turn them on the facade dissolves and you almost have to assume that the feature didn't cost much to put in your car and you are simply being charged as much as they think they can convince you to pay, which is often true but never fun to realize.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
praptak 4y ago
Any physical device that you sold me I can use whenever and however I want. Offering this as a paid option is not enough.
dncornholio 4y ago
> In any case, I see customer value It costs BMW nothing to enable the heater. The heater is in your car and you cannot use it. Where is the added value for the customer exactly? If I don't want to use, you just don't turn it on. There is exactly 0 value for the customer here, and all the value to BMW.
frereubu 4y ago
Fair point. But my concern about the "permanent" purchase would still be similar to "buying" a move on Amazon Prime. There's presumably still a mechanism for this to be rescinded somehow, whether through technical error, sunsetting the API that's used etc.
- regularfry 4y ago
  If you think about how much functionality on a modern car depends on the legislative region it's sold in (which turns out to be quite a lot), the same is true for an awful lot of functionality in a modern car. Flip the wrong bit and you're not road-legal.

headsoup 4y ago

This seems to imply that there would be some significant cost to BMW for implementing it, which is clearly not the case if it can be enabled on subscription. Otherwise just make headlights an optional subscription too because they're only used occasionally...

vr46 4y ago

That’s not the only perspective. Suppose everybody started building devices and vehicles packed with hardware that the user might never access or use? What happens to the device when it’s decommissioned? Is the breaker’s yard allowed to strip and part out the subscription-only hardware? Why should a thousand customers burn fuel pointlessly to haul round features they don’t use? Who owns the actual hardware in the event of not-subscribing? Suppose the unwanted hardware causes failures or interference elsewhere? It’s one thing to toggle feature flags, but I doubt the seats are heated by overclocking an Intel i9 on bootup.

kumarvvr 4y ago

If the option can be enabled in the future, doesn't that mean the car is having the hardware in the seats? (Heating coils, or what have you). Then, wouldn't that mean the customer is already paying for the hardware (cost of the car itself), and everything else is just greed?

rkachowski 4y ago
In addition to the cost of the energy required to actually heat the seats.
blabberwocky 4y ago
I think the distinction is semantic. The customer is paying for a feature set and usable spec which he receives. It’s not as if the customer pays some price expecting to use the heated seats and doesn’t get to do so. There’s an argument that this unnecessarily reduces everyone’s fuel efficiency due to the greater weight of the hardware, etc., but again this is more or less already captured in the advertised spec.
- kumarvvr 4y ago
  The function is as per spec. But not the Bill of Materials, upon which the price is ultimately decided. What I mean to say is that a customer who chooses a spec that does not include heated seats, is supplied and charged for hardware that is not required in the spec.

invalidusernam3 4y ago

The fact that the hardware needed for the heated seats is already there and you're paying to turn it on is the weird part. For BMW, the cost of the heated seats must be very low if they're prepared to install them in all cars without knowing if the consumer will pay for the them or now. It's like buying a new laptop and paying to unlock additional RAM that is already installed, just not available. It would make me feel like the cost to the manufacturer is so low if they're prepared to risk it, that me paying for it after the fact feels like I'm getting ripped off (or that I've already actually payed for it in the original cost)

discopicante 4y ago
Maybe that's the point – more consistency in the manufacturing line might actually reduce costs for BMW and/or allow them to ship more vehicles faster. Perhaps the majority cost for the option is not for the equipment but for the labor involved in installing it.
- grendelt 4y ago
  So then make it a standard feature. If it's cheap enough to install, it's cheap enough to include as a base model feature.
  - rob74 4y ago
    If BMW can earn more money by always installing it but making it optional rather than making it a standard feature, guess what BMW will do?
    - sebazzz 4y ago
      Does that consider the fact that people might choose a different car instead because this is not included by default? Or perhaps BMW bets on the Apple effect, that people won't chose a different car anyway.
- saurik 4y ago
  Again, though, that labor is paid for either way if the installation was already done and it wasn't activated. Essentially, I think the argument being made here is that -- whether this was true or not -- when the heated seats had to be paid for up front to even have them in your car, you could tell yourself that they legitimately cost something (for the parts or the installation or whatever: that doesn't matter) related to how much you were paying for them... but if everyone has them and you are merely paying to turn them on the facade dissolves and you almost have to assume that the feature didn't cost much to put in your car and you are simply being charged as much as they think they can convince you to pay, which is often true but never fun to realize.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

praptak 4y ago

Any physical device that you sold me I can use whenever and however I want. Offering this as a paid option is not enough.

dncornholio 4y ago

> In any case, I see customer value It costs BMW nothing to enable the heater. The heater is in your car and you cannot use it. Where is the added value for the customer exactly? If I don't want to use, you just don't turn it on. There is exactly 0 value for the customer here, and all the value to BMW.

frereubu 4y ago

Fair point. But my concern about the "permanent" purchase would still be similar to "buying" a move on Amazon Prime. There's presumably still a mechanism for this to be rescinded somehow, whether through technical error, sunsetting the API that's used etc.

regularfry 4y ago
If you think about how much functionality on a modern car depends on the legislative region it's sold in (which turns out to be quite a lot), the same is true for an awful lot of functionality in a modern car. Flip the wrong bit and you're not road-legal.