7 ms·

Isn't this just a new way to pay for already existing options? Instead of paying the full cost in advance, you can spread it over the product's lifetime, and on

Isn't this just a new way to pay for already existing options? Instead of paying the full cost in advance, you can spread it over the product's lifetime, and once the car gets resold, the new buyer can "configure" it as they prefer.

benj111 4y ago
How much are you suggesting heated seats cost? What would an average owner pay over the lifetime of the vehicle?
- kabes 4y ago
  $406 for pemanent activation. It's right there in the article...
2143 4y ago
That's assuming manufacturers wouldn't already include the price of rentable hardware in the cost of the car. Would any manufacturers do that? Why would a manufacturer fit in hardware for heated seats into a car, and not charge you for it? Because they hope you will subscribe to the heated seats? This argument breaks down in markets like India, middle East, Malaysia etc where it's hot and humid, and nobody would want to use heated seats. If you don't subscribe, then it'll be a loss for the manufacturers who included the hardware and not charged you for it. Of course, the sane thing would be to not offer heated seats at all in such markets, but as things stand today, heated seats are offered in these hot places (and nobody uses them AFAIK). In the subscription-based future, here's how I think it'll be like: - heated-seat hardware will be present in the car - heated seats will be a rentable option - manufacturers would include the price for it anyway in the cost of the car => customers lose Cars are expensive as it is, so manufacturers can totally get away with it.
- wongarsu 4y ago
  The cost of installing heated seats might be at least partially included in the base price. But that's different from the price they charge for buying heated seats. The $300-$500 you currently pay for heated seats are not reflective of the price to run a couple resistive wires through a seat, they are reflective of what people are willing to pay for the convenience and status of heated seats.
- anakaine 4y ago
  And as soon as that car hits the second hand market, the next owner can find the appropriate relay, tap in a switch, and solve the rent to use problem.
  - willcipriano 4y ago
    "Irregular power draw detected, shutting down for your safety."
    - inkeddeveloper 4y ago
      So true
    - ehnto 4y ago
      While obviously a big pain in the butt, aftermarket EV computers are coming onto the market which could help solve the long tail of used EV software related nuisances. Lots of learning from the EV conversion market will go directly into that ecosystem too I feel. But that said, I'm pretty sure that it's already illegal in many countries to tamper with the ECU. It's currently because you can change the emissions profile of the car, but I'm sure they'll just swap to saying it's about safety instead for EVs.
    - rightbyte 4y ago
      Ye you maybe need to put the wires directly on the battery poles.
    - neuralRiot 4y ago
      “Site:aliexxpress.com bmw heated seat unlocker”
      - pxmpxm 4y ago
        ha, accurate
- 2Gkashmiri 4y ago
  in india, the car market starts at around 4 Lacs Inr or $5000. people tend to now buy cars for like 4-9L or $5000-$12000. the cheapest EV on the market is tata tigor ev for like inr 12Lacs or $15000 and those prices are on the high end spectrum of the general market and mass adoption is only possible if prices are price-matched or be close to the ICE cars. in that situation, it is not possible to add "features" that the people don't care about. think about it, a $5000 car is barebones as it is, when they launch its EV version, it is not going to have tesla features. there are manufacturers who are failing NCAP testing and they are pushing to not make such testing mandatory because in their opinion, it would reduce choice for customers and their own business would fail.
  - 2143 4y ago
    I don't see how your conclusion follows your premise. > people tend to now buy cars for like 4-9L or $5000-$12000 Sure the majority of the sales are for cheaper models, but go to any tier-1 or tier-2 city and you'll see plenty of BMWs, Mercs, Audis, Jaguars, Land Rovers, and whatever else is under the sun. Like, stand on any random junction, and I guarantee that the won't even be a single minute where you won't be able to spot a >₹50 lakh car ($62000). Yes the sales numbers are objectively much lower, but still you see plenty of them. > those prices are on the high end spectrum of the general market Here's a sales analysis for May 2022. How many of those are in the price range you mentioned: https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian-car-scene/252707-may-2022-indian-car-sales-figures-analysis.html https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian-car-scene/252707-may-2... People have moved past the ₹12 lakh mark a while ago. It's more like ₹25 lakhs now. I see plenty of Hyundais, Hondas, Kias, and Toyotas. None of them exactly have a cheap model anymore. Heck, there's such a huge number of Toyota Innova/Crysta on the road that it's practically invisible now. And top end Crysta retails at ₹25 lakhs (≈ $31000). > in that situation, it is not possible to add "features" that the people don't care about Move up the price range and you start to see nonsense (in this country) features like heated seats. My E-class has a panoramic sunroof which I never open because the sun is scorching here, and the glass' greenhouse effect cooks everyone inside so the AC has to work harder. > there are manufacturers who are failing NCAP testing and they are pushing to not make such testing mandatory because in their opinion European manufacturers here have always done well in terms of safety. Not entirely sure about other Asian brands. As for Indian brands, new Tata and Mahindra cars pass GNCAP with 5 stars, though Maruti still has a lot to improve.
- RajT88 4y ago
  Just FYI it does indeed snow in Korea. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_of_Seoul https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_of_Seoul
  - the-anarchist 4y ago
    It's funny how everyone thinks of South Korea as this Thailand-like climate when they in fact have some awfully cold days every once in a while.
    - desmosxxx 4y ago
      I'd say quite often even. It's pretty comparable to the Midwest in terms of climate (like south Ohio or Indiana).
    - desmosxxx 4y ago
      It's pretty comparable to the Midwest in terms of climate (like Ohio or Indiana). In the winters it's cold, pretty consistently.
gaze 4y ago
This isn't how things are priced. They ask what they can get. If they could ask for more money for the car, why wouldn't they?

benj111 4y ago

How much are you suggesting heated seats cost? What would an average owner pay over the lifetime of the vehicle?

kabes 4y ago
$406 for pemanent activation. It's right there in the article...

2143 4y ago

That's assuming manufacturers wouldn't already include the price of rentable hardware in the cost of the car. Would any manufacturers do that? Why would a manufacturer fit in hardware for heated seats into a car, and not charge you for it? Because they hope you will subscribe to the heated seats? This argument breaks down in markets like India, middle East, Malaysia etc where it's hot and humid, and nobody would want to use heated seats. If you don't subscribe, then it'll be a loss for the manufacturers who included the hardware and not charged you for it. Of course, the sane thing would be to not offer heated seats at all in such markets, but as things stand today, heated seats are offered in these hot places (and nobody uses them AFAIK). In the subscription-based future, here's how I think it'll be like: - heated-seat hardware will be present in the car - heated seats will be a rentable option - manufacturers would include the price for it anyway in the cost of the car => customers lose Cars are expensive as it is, so manufacturers can totally get away with it.

wongarsu 4y ago
The cost of installing heated seats might be at least partially included in the base price. But that's different from the price they charge for buying heated seats. The $300-$500 you currently pay for heated seats are not reflective of the price to run a couple resistive wires through a seat, they are reflective of what people are willing to pay for the convenience and status of heated seats.
anakaine 4y ago
And as soon as that car hits the second hand market, the next owner can find the appropriate relay, tap in a switch, and solve the rent to use problem.
- willcipriano 4y ago
  "Irregular power draw detected, shutting down for your safety."
  - inkeddeveloper 4y ago
    So true
  - ehnto 4y ago
    While obviously a big pain in the butt, aftermarket EV computers are coming onto the market which could help solve the long tail of used EV software related nuisances. Lots of learning from the EV conversion market will go directly into that ecosystem too I feel. But that said, I'm pretty sure that it's already illegal in many countries to tamper with the ECU. It's currently because you can change the emissions profile of the car, but I'm sure they'll just swap to saying it's about safety instead for EVs.
  - rightbyte 4y ago
    Ye you maybe need to put the wires directly on the battery poles.
  - neuralRiot 4y ago
    “Site:aliexxpress.com bmw heated seat unlocker”
    - pxmpxm 4y ago
      ha, accurate
2Gkashmiri 4y ago
in india, the car market starts at around 4 Lacs Inr or $5000. people tend to now buy cars for like 4-9L or $5000-$12000. the cheapest EV on the market is tata tigor ev for like inr 12Lacs or $15000 and those prices are on the high end spectrum of the general market and mass adoption is only possible if prices are price-matched or be close to the ICE cars. in that situation, it is not possible to add "features" that the people don't care about. think about it, a $5000 car is barebones as it is, when they launch its EV version, it is not going to have tesla features. there are manufacturers who are failing NCAP testing and they are pushing to not make such testing mandatory because in their opinion, it would reduce choice for customers and their own business would fail.
- 2143 4y ago
  I don't see how your conclusion follows your premise. > people tend to now buy cars for like 4-9L or $5000-$12000 Sure the majority of the sales are for cheaper models, but go to any tier-1 or tier-2 city and you'll see plenty of BMWs, Mercs, Audis, Jaguars, Land Rovers, and whatever else is under the sun. Like, stand on any random junction, and I guarantee that the won't even be a single minute where you won't be able to spot a >₹50 lakh car ($62000). Yes the sales numbers are objectively much lower, but still you see plenty of them. > those prices are on the high end spectrum of the general market Here's a sales analysis for May 2022. How many of those are in the price range you mentioned: https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian-car-scene/252707-may-2022-indian-car-sales-figures-analysis.html https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian-car-scene/252707-may-2... People have moved past the ₹12 lakh mark a while ago. It's more like ₹25 lakhs now. I see plenty of Hyundais, Hondas, Kias, and Toyotas. None of them exactly have a cheap model anymore. Heck, there's such a huge number of Toyota Innova/Crysta on the road that it's practically invisible now. And top end Crysta retails at ₹25 lakhs (≈ $31000). > in that situation, it is not possible to add "features" that the people don't care about Move up the price range and you start to see nonsense (in this country) features like heated seats. My E-class has a panoramic sunroof which I never open because the sun is scorching here, and the glass' greenhouse effect cooks everyone inside so the AC has to work harder. > there are manufacturers who are failing NCAP testing and they are pushing to not make such testing mandatory because in their opinion European manufacturers here have always done well in terms of safety. Not entirely sure about other Asian brands. As for Indian brands, new Tata and Mahindra cars pass GNCAP with 5 stars, though Maruti still has a lot to improve.
RajT88 4y ago
Just FYI it does indeed snow in Korea. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_of_Seoul https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_of_Seoul
- the-anarchist 4y ago
  It's funny how everyone thinks of South Korea as this Thailand-like climate when they in fact have some awfully cold days every once in a while.
  - desmosxxx 4y ago
    I'd say quite often even. It's pretty comparable to the Midwest in terms of climate (like south Ohio or Indiana).
  - desmosxxx 4y ago
    It's pretty comparable to the Midwest in terms of climate (like Ohio or Indiana). In the winters it's cold, pretty consistently.

gaze 4y ago

This isn't how things are priced. They ask what they can get. If they could ask for more money for the car, why wouldn't they?