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Wondering how many people who are commenting here, actually have children themselves. Because how I see it (as a parent) school closures itself are only the tip

Wondering how many people who are commenting here, actually have children themselves. Because how I see it (as a parent) school closures itself are only the tip of the iceberg...the schools which reopened with harsh mask, social distancing and constant disinfect your hands rules etc..are at least equally as bad for the development of a child

Markoff 4y ago
it's easy to see, anyone defending in this thread school closures is someone without children attending school, but there are also enlightened childless people who understand how wrong is it even without having children
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- imustbeevil 4y ago
  > anyone defending in this thread school closures is someone without children attending school Or like, not seeing everything as black and white. We had to do something because the hospitals were overflowing. When all the hospital beds are full of old covid patients slowly dying, every other person who gets injured is receiving treatment on the floor in the hallway, or not at all. You can have all the nuanced discussion you want about the degree of which any of the controls were implemented, but your position cannot be that we should have done nothing. What should have happened is everything closes for 2 weeks, the virus dies, and we go back to normal. We should all know who fucked that up.
  - Markoff 4y ago
    > What should have happened is everything closes for 2 weeks, the virus dies, and we go back to normal. We should all know who fucked that up. ROFL Yeah, that worked so great for China or for everyone since we had flu. Closing schools had no impact on virus, not saving hospitals from overflowing. Hospitals were not overflowing with school kids or their parents.
    - imustbeevil 4y ago
      > Closing schools had no impact on virus This is what I mean by framing things as black and white. Why would you make such an incredible claim? How could you possibly support a claim that reducing community spread in schools (where children are around 50% as likely to spread the virus, not 0% [1]) has "zero impact" on community spread outside of schools? How could children at home equally spread covid to other childrens homes as if there were 30 of them wearing poorly fitting masks in a closed room? [1] https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/we-now-know-how-much-children-spread-coronavirus https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/we-now-kn... > The role of young children in transmission seemed logical to some experts who have been tracking the evolution of the pandemic. “I think what was more surprising was how long the narrative persisted that children weren’t transmitting SARS-CoV-2,” said Sam Scarpino, PhD, managing director of pathogen surveillance at the Rockefeller Foundation. https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20210817/youngest-kids-more-likely-spread-covid-to-family https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20210817/youngest-kids-more-... > Nearly 1 in 4 COVID-19 deaths (5868 [CI, 3584 to 8171]; 23.2%) was potentially attributable to hospitals strained by surging caseload. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34224257/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34224257/ I've been working remotely since the pandemic started. I haven't gotten sick once. Not a cold, flu, covid, strep, bronchitis, nothing, for two and a half years. You get sick from contact with sick people. Reducing your contact with all people reduces your contact with sick people, reducing your likelihood of getting sick, becoming a sick person, and making other people sick. You could, as many do, make the case that we don't need to reduce contact that much, and that closing schools costs more than it returns. You cannot make the case that closing schools does not reduce contact and spread of sickness and death.
      - Markoff 4y ago
        My kid was in quarantine like 5 times within 6 weeks, got tested twice a week and guess what, still whole class got it anyway while ruining their education and everybody was fine, it was just big waste of everyone's time - children, teachers and parents. I'm working from home for many years and guess what who had COVID first in our family, so much for anecdotal experiences. > You cannot make the case that closing schools does not reduce contact and spread of sickness and death. Obviously reducing contact reduces contact, but it doesn't mean in real life conditions it somehow reduces spread of sickness, that's just wishfull thinking of people admiring Chinese totalitarians, who implemented Chinese nonsense through this pandemic to democratic societies.
BbzzbB 4y ago
It's a fair point you bring up, but why should only people with kids be able to comment on this (which is unrelated to your main point to boot)? Sure, I can't have the same perspective as a parent, but if there is an experience familiar to everyone from minimally developed countries, it's school: we've all been to it. Even if we don't have kids ourselves we're exposed to family's and friends' kids, and we can extrapolate from our own experience what it might've been like to spend over a whole year being "in school" from our bedrooms and then another without natural human contact. My nephew was surprised (and extatic) that the ladies in daycare are smiling once they took their masks off, it's obviously unhealthy to not be exposed to facial expressions while learning to be a social primate.
- kalaido 4y ago
  Agree. Just made the point it’s different to judge from hearsay. Of course you are able to relate, but it’s not the same. I can relate to somebody with cancer, but as long I don’t have the experience myself it’s “only extrapolate”.
- kjhgkjghkj 4y ago
  It's hard to explain just how brutal and inhuman the lockdown experience was for those of us with kids. At least, those of us who refused to follow the "new normal" of allowing our kids' lives to be ever-increasingly ruled by phones and tablets. The times I have spoken up in the past have not gone well for me (and almost entirely, it was speaking to people without kids who tell me that "lockdowns aren't so bad" after they've been out cycling all day). There were all of the obvious retorts, like "well, shows how much you don't care about KILLING EVERYONE", as well as ideas like "well, they're your kids, you look after them". That's a bit hard when you and everyone you know are under house arrest. In fact, it was the experience of living through lockdowns with a 1 year old and a pregnant wife that so strongly coloured my opinions on the overall benefits of them - judging by their effects on the next generation, we have screwed up really badly. I know several teachers, and they all say that the culture of learning has been disrupted, and those who teach in disadvantaged areas, say that kids will never recover. By "a culture of learning", I mean that it is generally accepted that all kid go to school and at least attempt to get some qualifications. We don't know what we've got till it's gone.

Markoff 4y ago

it's easy to see, anyone defending in this thread school closures is someone without children attending school, but there are also enlightened childless people who understand how wrong is it even without having children

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
imustbeevil 4y ago
> anyone defending in this thread school closures is someone without children attending school Or like, not seeing everything as black and white. We had to do something because the hospitals were overflowing. When all the hospital beds are full of old covid patients slowly dying, every other person who gets injured is receiving treatment on the floor in the hallway, or not at all. You can have all the nuanced discussion you want about the degree of which any of the controls were implemented, but your position cannot be that we should have done nothing. What should have happened is everything closes for 2 weeks, the virus dies, and we go back to normal. We should all know who fucked that up.
- Markoff 4y ago
  > What should have happened is everything closes for 2 weeks, the virus dies, and we go back to normal. We should all know who fucked that up. ROFL Yeah, that worked so great for China or for everyone since we had flu. Closing schools had no impact on virus, not saving hospitals from overflowing. Hospitals were not overflowing with school kids or their parents.
  - imustbeevil 4y ago
    > Closing schools had no impact on virus This is what I mean by framing things as black and white. Why would you make such an incredible claim? How could you possibly support a claim that reducing community spread in schools (where children are around 50% as likely to spread the virus, not 0% [1]) has "zero impact" on community spread outside of schools? How could children at home equally spread covid to other childrens homes as if there were 30 of them wearing poorly fitting masks in a closed room? [1] https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/we-now-know-how-much-children-spread-coronavirus https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/we-now-kn... > The role of young children in transmission seemed logical to some experts who have been tracking the evolution of the pandemic. “I think what was more surprising was how long the narrative persisted that children weren’t transmitting SARS-CoV-2,” said Sam Scarpino, PhD, managing director of pathogen surveillance at the Rockefeller Foundation. https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20210817/youngest-kids-more-likely-spread-covid-to-family https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20210817/youngest-kids-more-... > Nearly 1 in 4 COVID-19 deaths (5868 [CI, 3584 to 8171]; 23.2%) was potentially attributable to hospitals strained by surging caseload. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34224257/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34224257/ I've been working remotely since the pandemic started. I haven't gotten sick once. Not a cold, flu, covid, strep, bronchitis, nothing, for two and a half years. You get sick from contact with sick people. Reducing your contact with all people reduces your contact with sick people, reducing your likelihood of getting sick, becoming a sick person, and making other people sick. You could, as many do, make the case that we don't need to reduce contact that much, and that closing schools costs more than it returns. You cannot make the case that closing schools does not reduce contact and spread of sickness and death.
    - Markoff 4y ago
      My kid was in quarantine like 5 times within 6 weeks, got tested twice a week and guess what, still whole class got it anyway while ruining their education and everybody was fine, it was just big waste of everyone's time - children, teachers and parents. I'm working from home for many years and guess what who had COVID first in our family, so much for anecdotal experiences. > You cannot make the case that closing schools does not reduce contact and spread of sickness and death. Obviously reducing contact reduces contact, but it doesn't mean in real life conditions it somehow reduces spread of sickness, that's just wishfull thinking of people admiring Chinese totalitarians, who implemented Chinese nonsense through this pandemic to democratic societies.

BbzzbB 4y ago

It's a fair point you bring up, but why should only people with kids be able to comment on this (which is unrelated to your main point to boot)? Sure, I can't have the same perspective as a parent, but if there is an experience familiar to everyone from minimally developed countries, it's school: we've all been to it. Even if we don't have kids ourselves we're exposed to family's and friends' kids, and we can extrapolate from our own experience what it might've been like to spend over a whole year being "in school" from our bedrooms and then another without natural human contact. My nephew was surprised (and extatic) that the ladies in daycare are smiling once they took their masks off, it's obviously unhealthy to not be exposed to facial expressions while learning to be a social primate.

kalaido 4y ago
Agree. Just made the point it’s different to judge from hearsay. Of course you are able to relate, but it’s not the same. I can relate to somebody with cancer, but as long I don’t have the experience myself it’s “only extrapolate”.
kjhgkjghkj 4y ago
It's hard to explain just how brutal and inhuman the lockdown experience was for those of us with kids. At least, those of us who refused to follow the "new normal" of allowing our kids' lives to be ever-increasingly ruled by phones and tablets. The times I have spoken up in the past have not gone well for me (and almost entirely, it was speaking to people without kids who tell me that "lockdowns aren't so bad" after they've been out cycling all day). There were all of the obvious retorts, like "well, shows how much you don't care about KILLING EVERYONE", as well as ideas like "well, they're your kids, you look after them". That's a bit hard when you and everyone you know are under house arrest. In fact, it was the experience of living through lockdowns with a 1 year old and a pregnant wife that so strongly coloured my opinions on the overall benefits of them - judging by their effects on the next generation, we have screwed up really badly. I know several teachers, and they all say that the culture of learning has been disrupted, and those who teach in disadvantaged areas, say that kids will never recover. By "a culture of learning", I mean that it is generally accepted that all kid go to school and at least attempt to get some qualifications. We don't know what we've got till it's gone.