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"the ability for a Flash application to appear consistent across platforms" If you read the blog article linked above (I am the author) you will see that Flash

by Kontra 18y ago

"the ability for a Flash application to appear consistent across platforms" If you read the blog article linked above (I am the author) you will see that Flash doesn't even have a native multi-touch framework, thereby making that "consistent across platforms" promise hollow on the iPhone and other similar devices to come. I think you'll find useful pointers in that article as to why Apple can't and won't just let Flash ruin iPhone's user experience coherency, both strategically and tactically.

bporterfield 18y ago
In fact, I think the opposite is true - Flash will appear 'consistent across platforms', as there is no way to use multi-touch and Flash on your computer screen today either. How this affects coherency on the iPhone is up for debate, but regardless I don't think Flash's lack of multi-touch should restrict me from using stormpulse from my iPhone.
- Kontra 18y ago
  "...as there is no way to use multi-touch and Flash on your computer screen today either." And that's one of the principal points: Flash is yesteryear's technology. "How this affects coherency on the iPhone is up for debate" What's there to debate? Flash doesn't support multi-touch, iPhone runs on it. "I don't think Flash's lack of multi-touch should restrict me from using stormpulse from my iPhone." I have written another article: Runtime wars (2): Apple's answer to Flash, Silverlight and JavaFX http://counternotions.com/2007/11/15/apple-runtime-answer-2/ http://counternotions.com/2007/11/15/apple-runtime-answer-2/ wherein I explain how emerging standard technologies are essentially rendering most (not all) of Flash's advantages moot. Actually, since I wrote that article, advances in JavaScript, canvas, CSS animation, etc., have been pouring in at an astounding pace. So most (not all) folks out there will take a harder look and see if they can easily do now with HTML5 what they could only do with Flash yesterday. Apple, like Google, is riding on that wave.
  - wensing 18y ago
    With WebKit 3.0, will/does SVG have a drawing API as powerful as that of Flash? If not now, when? Fact: IE 6 still represents 29% of all traffic to www.stormpulse.com.
    - Kontra 18y ago
      "With WebKit 3.0, will/does SVG have a drawing API as powerful as that of Flash? If not now, when?" No it doesn't. The point you might be missing is that a huge portion of apps/sites that currently use Flash in fact don't need to. I'm not saying Flash/Flex/AIR have no place on the webscape. I'm saying that an awful lot of stuff that could only be done via Flash in the past, don't have to use it any longer. And that's an upward trend.
      - wensing 18y ago
        The point you might be missing is that a huge portion of apps/sites that currently use Flash in fact don't need to. No argument here. It's definitely an over-prescribed technology. Maybe the alternatives could use better marketing. "JavaScript and SVG" just doesn't sound as whiz-bang or easy as "Flash".
  - bporterfield 18y ago
    I find that your argument against Flash on the iPhone misses the point. I don't want to create iPhone-specific apps with Flash (yet!). A similar argument could be provided for any web technology: "HTML doesn't support multi-touch, iPhone runs on it...hence, iPhone should not support HTML"...? All multi-touch does in Safari is zoom! Flash could support the very same functionality. I think you're focusing on the limitations of the technology instead of focusing on the limitations inherent to the iPhone today. My reasoning goes something like this: the Internet contains information that I want to access. Often, that information is embedded in Flash widgets, Flex RIAs, iPapers, etc. As an end-user, I could care less that the information, the video, the whatever is in Flash, HTML, or sign language - I just want to be able to see it. Continuing with my previous example: I don't care that I can't use two fingers to control stormpulse, my only requirement is that I can access the existing information! I want to be able to see the content in the links my friends send me, to see the videos embedded in the pages I'm looking at. That alone should be a large enough requirement to make Flash on the iPhone useful. You can argue for days about the best technology to build something in, but the fact is that when I can't see a video I want to see on the iPhone, I'm frustrated.

by Kontra 18y ago

bporterfield 18y ago

In fact, I think the opposite is true - Flash will appear 'consistent across platforms', as there is no way to use multi-touch and Flash on your computer screen today either. How this affects coherency on the iPhone is up for debate, but regardless I don't think Flash's lack of multi-touch should restrict me from using stormpulse from my iPhone.

Kontra 18y ago
"...as there is no way to use multi-touch and Flash on your computer screen today either." And that's one of the principal points: Flash is yesteryear's technology. "How this affects coherency on the iPhone is up for debate" What's there to debate? Flash doesn't support multi-touch, iPhone runs on it. "I don't think Flash's lack of multi-touch should restrict me from using stormpulse from my iPhone." I have written another article: Runtime wars (2): Apple's answer to Flash, Silverlight and JavaFX http://counternotions.com/2007/11/15/apple-runtime-answer-2/ http://counternotions.com/2007/11/15/apple-runtime-answer-2/ wherein I explain how emerging standard technologies are essentially rendering most (not all) of Flash's advantages moot. Actually, since I wrote that article, advances in JavaScript, canvas, CSS animation, etc., have been pouring in at an astounding pace. So most (not all) folks out there will take a harder look and see if they can easily do now with HTML5 what they could only do with Flash yesterday. Apple, like Google, is riding on that wave.
- wensing 18y ago
  With WebKit 3.0, will/does SVG have a drawing API as powerful as that of Flash? If not now, when? Fact: IE 6 still represents 29% of all traffic to www.stormpulse.com.
  - Kontra 18y ago
    "With WebKit 3.0, will/does SVG have a drawing API as powerful as that of Flash? If not now, when?" No it doesn't. The point you might be missing is that a huge portion of apps/sites that currently use Flash in fact don't need to. I'm not saying Flash/Flex/AIR have no place on the webscape. I'm saying that an awful lot of stuff that could only be done via Flash in the past, don't have to use it any longer. And that's an upward trend.
    - wensing 18y ago
      The point you might be missing is that a huge portion of apps/sites that currently use Flash in fact don't need to. No argument here. It's definitely an over-prescribed technology. Maybe the alternatives could use better marketing. "JavaScript and SVG" just doesn't sound as whiz-bang or easy as "Flash".
- bporterfield 18y ago
  I find that your argument against Flash on the iPhone misses the point. I don't want to create iPhone-specific apps with Flash (yet!). A similar argument could be provided for any web technology: "HTML doesn't support multi-touch, iPhone runs on it...hence, iPhone should not support HTML"...? All multi-touch does in Safari is zoom! Flash could support the very same functionality. I think you're focusing on the limitations of the technology instead of focusing on the limitations inherent to the iPhone today. My reasoning goes something like this: the Internet contains information that I want to access. Often, that information is embedded in Flash widgets, Flex RIAs, iPapers, etc. As an end-user, I could care less that the information, the video, the whatever is in Flash, HTML, or sign language - I just want to be able to see it. Continuing with my previous example: I don't care that I can't use two fingers to control stormpulse, my only requirement is that I can access the existing information! I want to be able to see the content in the links my friends send me, to see the videos embedded in the pages I'm looking at. That alone should be a large enough requirement to make Flash on the iPhone useful. You can argue for days about the best technology to build something in, but the fact is that when I can't see a video I want to see on the iPhone, I'm frustrated.