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and this is part of why i think cryptocurrencies should have died before large number of people wasted their money on it. for the average user without the time

and this is part of why i think cryptocurrencies should have died before large number of people wasted their money on it. for the average user without the time/knowledge/patience to handle cryptos "properly", the choice is between losing money while handling this shit yourself or losing money while trusting someone else to do it right.

spaceman_2020 4y ago
Its an entirely free market. Just because one person doesn't understand the tech and loses his money doesn't mean that everyone else shouldn't be allowed to use it either. Even if you don't buy into the crypto vision (I don't), a digital-only currency that isn't tied to any nation-state does deserve to exist.
- Retric 4y ago
  It’s fine for a few people to play with such a system. The issue if it’s absolutely clear crypto is incapable of widespread adoption or just about anything else people hype it up as, then it shouldn’t be hyped as if that stuff is a possibility. I could never tell how much was incompetence vs fraud, but either way without the hype vastly fewer suckers would be holding the bag right now. The crypto ecosystem has been just been terrible for just about everyone and things are far from over.
  - spaceman_2020 4y ago
    The people holding the bag right now mostly got in because of the allure of quick profits. And if they didn't sell even after making incredible (paper) returns, they have their own greed to blame. Bitcoin was $6,000 in March 2020. It hit $63,000 in April 2021. And if you didn't sell that top, it hit $67,000 again in November 2021. Even now, it has dropped less than Netflix, a supposed bluechip. I don't know what's the scam in this - you had plenty of entry opportunities and plenty of exit opportunities. The underlying system itself still works exactly as described.
    - Retric 4y ago
      I lost nothing, but I can empathies with people who are screwed. It’s not that Bitcoin or any alt coin has X paper value right now, it’s nobody can get out without someone else getting stuck holding the bag. The underlying system is predatory because mining isn’t free so it’s a negative sum game where people have already cashed out. I remember being saddened when it was less than 1/1,000th isn’t current value I realized how many suckers where lining up for the fleecing. I briefly thought the odds are very good it’s going sky high, but I didn’t want to be part of someone losing their retirement when things eventually fell apart.
      - sacrosancty 4y ago
        Wait a minute. You decided not to invest early, despite expecting it to be massively profitable because you were worried about the morality of allowing less competent people to try the same thing in future? Are you sure that's really the truth and you weren't just too hesitant and now you regret missing out so you've gone all salty?
        Retric 4y ago
        Almost, I wasn't worried about people trying to time the market. I was worried for the suckers who actually believed the hype. Look morality is only meaningful when it comes at a cost. I sincerely hope you are discouraged from scamming, robbing, kidnapping etc because you think it’s wrong rather than insufficient gain to be worth the effort.
        empraptor 4y ago
        they said odds were good, but maybe they're not much of a gambler. and sounds like they views cryptocurrencies as being something akin to scammy MLM or Ponzi scheme rather than an investment. i haven't bought any myself. i just enjoy reading tech and economics stories in general so i've been reading about cryptocurrencies since 2013 or so. but i don't intend to buy any unless one fulfills some need i have better than other solutions. and i certainly don't intend to hold onto any if i can help it.
  - datavirtue 4y ago
    Watch it be the reason we get tripped into a recession or some other ponzi-scheme-infused crash.
    - eloff 4y ago
      Crypto isn't big enough to do that on it's own.
      - sethd 4y ago
        Crypto isn't big enough to do that on it's own. It would make for an interesting black swan event. :)
- uoaei 4y ago
  Not a free market. An unregulated market. "Free market" in the Smithian sense is not what we have here.
- secretsatan 4y ago
  I mean, this very much sounds like there's no such thing as fraud in a free market
ETH_start 4y ago
The market adapts to make secure access more convenient. The best solution devised so far is hardware wallets, which mostly insulate someone from hacks emanating from their computing device being compromised.

spaceman_2020 4y ago

Its an entirely free market. Just because one person doesn't understand the tech and loses his money doesn't mean that everyone else shouldn't be allowed to use it either. Even if you don't buy into the crypto vision (I don't), a digital-only currency that isn't tied to any nation-state does deserve to exist.

Retric 4y ago
It’s fine for a few people to play with such a system. The issue if it’s absolutely clear crypto is incapable of widespread adoption or just about anything else people hype it up as, then it shouldn’t be hyped as if that stuff is a possibility. I could never tell how much was incompetence vs fraud, but either way without the hype vastly fewer suckers would be holding the bag right now. The crypto ecosystem has been just been terrible for just about everyone and things are far from over.
- spaceman_2020 4y ago
  The people holding the bag right now mostly got in because of the allure of quick profits. And if they didn't sell even after making incredible (paper) returns, they have their own greed to blame. Bitcoin was $6,000 in March 2020. It hit $63,000 in April 2021. And if you didn't sell that top, it hit $67,000 again in November 2021. Even now, it has dropped less than Netflix, a supposed bluechip. I don't know what's the scam in this - you had plenty of entry opportunities and plenty of exit opportunities. The underlying system itself still works exactly as described.
  - Retric 4y ago
    I lost nothing, but I can empathies with people who are screwed. It’s not that Bitcoin or any alt coin has X paper value right now, it’s nobody can get out without someone else getting stuck holding the bag. The underlying system is predatory because mining isn’t free so it’s a negative sum game where people have already cashed out. I remember being saddened when it was less than 1/1,000th isn’t current value I realized how many suckers where lining up for the fleecing. I briefly thought the odds are very good it’s going sky high, but I didn’t want to be part of someone losing their retirement when things eventually fell apart.
    - sacrosancty 4y ago
      Wait a minute. You decided not to invest early, despite expecting it to be massively profitable because you were worried about the morality of allowing less competent people to try the same thing in future? Are you sure that's really the truth and you weren't just too hesitant and now you regret missing out so you've gone all salty?
      - Retric 4y ago
        Almost, I wasn't worried about people trying to time the market. I was worried for the suckers who actually believed the hype. Look morality is only meaningful when it comes at a cost. I sincerely hope you are discouraged from scamming, robbing, kidnapping etc because you think it’s wrong rather than insufficient gain to be worth the effort.
      - empraptor 4y ago
        they said odds were good, but maybe they're not much of a gambler. and sounds like they views cryptocurrencies as being something akin to scammy MLM or Ponzi scheme rather than an investment. i haven't bought any myself. i just enjoy reading tech and economics stories in general so i've been reading about cryptocurrencies since 2013 or so. but i don't intend to buy any unless one fulfills some need i have better than other solutions. and i certainly don't intend to hold onto any if i can help it.
- datavirtue 4y ago
  Watch it be the reason we get tripped into a recession or some other ponzi-scheme-infused crash.
  - eloff 4y ago
    Crypto isn't big enough to do that on it's own.
    - sethd 4y ago
      Crypto isn't big enough to do that on it's own. It would make for an interesting black swan event. :)
uoaei 4y ago
Not a free market. An unregulated market. "Free market" in the Smithian sense is not what we have here.
secretsatan 4y ago
I mean, this very much sounds like there's no such thing as fraud in a free market

ETH_start 4y ago

The market adapts to make secure access more convenient. The best solution devised so far is hardware wallets, which mostly insulate someone from hacks emanating from their computing device being compromised.