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> then a couple of hours of my time wasted on removing every last piece of burnt greasy cheese from inside the toaster Do you have a fancy toaster? I wouldve

> then a couple of hours of my time wasted on removing every last piece of burnt greasy cheese from inside the toaster Do you have a fancy toaster? I wouldve just replaced mine, although mine is pretty basic

rtkwe 4y ago
That's a super wasteful solution to this. The toaster is perfectly salvageable.
- cupofpython 4y ago
  So drop it off at a salvage location. OP was complaining about salvaging it, like it was necessary. If you want to do is as a fun personal project, go for it, but it is wasteful of human time to salvage something that cheap rather than add it to a scrap pile for a professional salvage company to process in bulk. As a bonus, the kid learns that if you arent careful with your items they may break and be gone. you dont waste hours of your time on something that should cost about 1 hour of your time at work max. Edit: Agree to disagree, but my post is still a valid position to hold and im open to conversation. but sure use downvote as a dislike button - we are all familiar with where that gets us. okay guess im an asshole. go use a salvaged toaster in your kitchen. for $20, id rather not risk burning my house down or teaching my kids to put their hands inside the toaster but to each their own
  - t_mann 4y ago
    The salvaging actually helped the learning experience immensely - shows the kid that carelessness can have lasting consequences. Replacing the toaster and yelling 'We had to spend $X to get a new one now!' will be forgotten by the end of the day.
    - cupofpython 4y ago
      >The salvaging actually helped the learning experience immensely - shows the kid that carelessness can have lasting consequences. If the kid was present for it. Otherwise, its very much just another "oopsie" they did that mom and dad clean up behind the scenes and they have no idea what the difference is between ruining a toaster and spilling a glass of milk. >We had to spend $X to get a new one now! I would never say this to my kids.
      - t_mann 4y ago
        > I would never say this to my kids. So what would the learning experience consist of then? > If the kid was present for it. OP mentioned several hours of work + dry runs in the garden. Pretty hard to miss that, unless they're perpetually glued to their screens (which would be the bigger concern). PS: Also, unless you take your kid to a physical store, the new toaster will pop up even more magically than the cleaned one.
        cupofpython 4y ago
        the learning experience is that the toaster they were familiar with is gone because of what they did. very simple. I guess I am the only one here that doesnt want to fuck with toaster repair. they arent worth it. they can cause fires and give electrical shocks. honestly, the last thing i want my kid to think in that situation is that it is okay for them to put their hands in the toaster. Which they might do if they see me do it while cleaning
        deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
        toss1 4y ago
        >> can cause fires and give electrical shocks. which is why you unplug it before working on it and make a BIG point to the kid of both hazards, and how essential it is to remove power before working on something, AND to do test runs in a safer area like outside, etc. >>the last thing i want my kid to think in that situation is that it is okay for them to put their hands in the toaster I'd say that you don't want them putting their hands in WHILE IT IS POWERED or HOT. Important distinction, and best started early and often. They'll see it sometime, better to have them have a context so they can tell the difference between doing the same thing when it is smart (powered down and repairing), vs Darwin Award candidate level stupid (when powered); then they can evaluate other's actions and draw the right conclusions.
        cupofpython 4y ago
  - Grustaf 4y ago
    Seems better to teach the children to value their possessions.
    - cupofpython 4y ago
      What better way to teach that than have them understand if they dont respect the way something is supposed to be used, they might break it? Could be fun to sit with them and take apart the toaster and assess it together and see if its worth cleaning or replacing and explaining why. But I wouldnt spend 2+ hours cleaning it by myself and then complaining about it
      - Grustaf 4y ago
        I’m not American so I will never understand the dusposable-everything mindset. I will happily spend hours repairing something that costs 15 minutes of my time to buy. Throwing away salvageable things is just wrong, it’s not an economic question for me.
        cupofpython 4y ago
        there's a lot of relevant things i could get into on it. in short though, disposable items are cheaper and despite what a lot people think - most of us are broke. after you adjust to dealing with disposable items a lot.. you kind of grow out of the feeling that every item is special and needs to be repaired to max extent and kept for as long as it can. It feels anthropomorphic / overly sentimental to do that. the moral argument gets the curtain pulled back and there's very little substantiating it. imo, at least. Curious if you can shed better light on your moral stance here tbh. im not die-hard on this subject and would happily update my views if convinced otherwise I respect that you have a productive hobby interest in repairing items, and for the most part I share that. But I dont see anything wrong with throwing something away that could be salvageable. Once it stops working, it is just parts and material and I now become part of the demand for toasters. What's wrong with letting toaster specialists handle toaster demand? In the time it takes me to repair a toaster, the specialists can produce 100 of them. and thanks to people like me buying from them rather than doing it myself, they remain productive members of society and get to feed themselves. And I get a couple hours back to do something else to potentially improve society or my personal life. All that said, I do think there is a lot more we can do with waste management to better deal with disposed parts and materials, though. A lot of how we handle disposed goods is definitely wrong. we mix materials with food waste and it makes everything gross and expensive to work with. food waste really should be a hard split from everything else but maybe one day
  - bombcar 4y ago
    Replacing it teaches the kid that if you break something, it magically comes back like a respawn in a video game. I'd be very tempted to work with him to help clean it; let him do much of the grunt work whilst I helped and supervised (though to be honest I wouldn't be that hard on my kid for doing this unless he had been told don't do it beforehand. I've done enough boneheaded things in my day!).
    - cupofpython 4y ago
      the point is that OP was complaining about the time he didnt need to spend cleaning it >I'd be very tempted to work with him to help clean it; how is this being hard on your kid, but you doing it by yourself is totally normal and replacing it a total economic waste? Is it easy to fix or not?
  - ryukafalz 4y ago
    It's also wasteful of energy and materials to scrap and replace something that's still perfectly functional.
    - cupofpython 4y ago
      except it isnt functional. it is covered in burnt cheese that will take hours to fix. it's a huge waste of time to clean off burnt cheese from such a tiny piece of material. collect a bunch of similar materials from the dump and bulk clean them all into workable materials again with a pressure washer in the same amount of time. Work an extra 2 hours, use the money to buy a new toaster, and spend the rest on food for the homeless. the moral argument is bullshit. it's a waste of your time, and the only reason you dont think so is because you get personal enjoyment out of fixing things (i do too)
  - c22 4y ago
    It's only monetarily cheap because it's been built, like most modern things, with a massive externalization of its waste-cost.
    - cupofpython 4y ago
      Same for toilet paper but we flush it anyway. Everyone in this thread is suddenly zero-waste zealots.
      - xanaxagoras 4y ago
        Presumably until it comes to incremental updates to a phone, laptop, video game system, etc
  - PhasmaFelis 4y ago
    It's totally reasonable for an individual to say "it's not worth my time and effort to fix this, I'll just replace it." Taking a moral stand against repair-and-reuse in general is weird. Some people are on a budget where replacing even a $25 toaster is not a painless expense. Some people don't like producing unnecessary waste. And throwing it away without replacing it punishes everyone in the house for the kid's mistake.
    - cupofpython 4y ago
      >Taking a moral stand against repair-and-reuse in general is weird Nowhere did I do this, and the claim is confusing because I am a supporter of repair-and-reuse in general. People are extrapolating from me saying specifically that a toaster is not worth it. Toasters cause house fires. I would always sooner replace it for $25 than salvage one. >And throwing it away without replacing it punishes everyone in the house for the kid's mistake. A lack of a toaster for a day or two hardly punishes anyone, and the child sees that other people can be impacted by their recklessness. > Some people are on a budget where replacing even a $25 toaster is not a painless expense Yeah, I am one of those people actually. I have an emergency fund that I would happily use for this 1-off incident.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
rglullis 4y ago
- cupofpython 4y ago
  are you okay?
  - gpvos 4y ago
    Are you?
baggsie 4y ago
I would have made the kid do it

rtkwe 4y ago

That's a super wasteful solution to this. The toaster is perfectly salvageable.

cupofpython 4y ago
So drop it off at a salvage location. OP was complaining about salvaging it, like it was necessary. If you want to do is as a fun personal project, go for it, but it is wasteful of human time to salvage something that cheap rather than add it to a scrap pile for a professional salvage company to process in bulk. As a bonus, the kid learns that if you arent careful with your items they may break and be gone. you dont waste hours of your time on something that should cost about 1 hour of your time at work max. Edit: Agree to disagree, but my post is still a valid position to hold and im open to conversation. but sure use downvote as a dislike button - we are all familiar with where that gets us. okay guess im an asshole. go use a salvaged toaster in your kitchen. for $20, id rather not risk burning my house down or teaching my kids to put their hands inside the toaster but to each their own
- t_mann 4y ago
  The salvaging actually helped the learning experience immensely - shows the kid that carelessness can have lasting consequences. Replacing the toaster and yelling 'We had to spend $X to get a new one now!' will be forgotten by the end of the day.
  - cupofpython 4y ago
    >The salvaging actually helped the learning experience immensely - shows the kid that carelessness can have lasting consequences. If the kid was present for it. Otherwise, its very much just another "oopsie" they did that mom and dad clean up behind the scenes and they have no idea what the difference is between ruining a toaster and spilling a glass of milk. >We had to spend $X to get a new one now! I would never say this to my kids.
    - t_mann 4y ago
      > I would never say this to my kids. So what would the learning experience consist of then? > If the kid was present for it. OP mentioned several hours of work + dry runs in the garden. Pretty hard to miss that, unless they're perpetually glued to their screens (which would be the bigger concern). PS: Also, unless you take your kid to a physical store, the new toaster will pop up even more magically than the cleaned one.
      - cupofpython 4y ago
        the learning experience is that the toaster they were familiar with is gone because of what they did. very simple. I guess I am the only one here that doesnt want to fuck with toaster repair. they arent worth it. they can cause fires and give electrical shocks. honestly, the last thing i want my kid to think in that situation is that it is okay for them to put their hands in the toaster. Which they might do if they see me do it while cleaning
        deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
        toss1 4y ago
        >> can cause fires and give electrical shocks. which is why you unplug it before working on it and make a BIG point to the kid of both hazards, and how essential it is to remove power before working on something, AND to do test runs in a safer area like outside, etc. >>the last thing i want my kid to think in that situation is that it is okay for them to put their hands in the toaster I'd say that you don't want them putting their hands in WHILE IT IS POWERED or HOT. Important distinction, and best started early and often. They'll see it sometime, better to have them have a context so they can tell the difference between doing the same thing when it is smart (powered down and repairing), vs Darwin Award candidate level stupid (when powered); then they can evaluate other's actions and draw the right conclusions.
        cupofpython 4y ago
- Grustaf 4y ago
  Seems better to teach the children to value their possessions.
  - cupofpython 4y ago
    What better way to teach that than have them understand if they dont respect the way something is supposed to be used, they might break it? Could be fun to sit with them and take apart the toaster and assess it together and see if its worth cleaning or replacing and explaining why. But I wouldnt spend 2+ hours cleaning it by myself and then complaining about it
    - Grustaf 4y ago
      I’m not American so I will never understand the dusposable-everything mindset. I will happily spend hours repairing something that costs 15 minutes of my time to buy. Throwing away salvageable things is just wrong, it’s not an economic question for me.
      - cupofpython 4y ago
        there's a lot of relevant things i could get into on it. in short though, disposable items are cheaper and despite what a lot people think - most of us are broke. after you adjust to dealing with disposable items a lot.. you kind of grow out of the feeling that every item is special and needs to be repaired to max extent and kept for as long as it can. It feels anthropomorphic / overly sentimental to do that. the moral argument gets the curtain pulled back and there's very little substantiating it. imo, at least. Curious if you can shed better light on your moral stance here tbh. im not die-hard on this subject and would happily update my views if convinced otherwise I respect that you have a productive hobby interest in repairing items, and for the most part I share that. But I dont see anything wrong with throwing something away that could be salvageable. Once it stops working, it is just parts and material and I now become part of the demand for toasters. What's wrong with letting toaster specialists handle toaster demand? In the time it takes me to repair a toaster, the specialists can produce 100 of them. and thanks to people like me buying from them rather than doing it myself, they remain productive members of society and get to feed themselves. And I get a couple hours back to do something else to potentially improve society or my personal life. All that said, I do think there is a lot more we can do with waste management to better deal with disposed parts and materials, though. A lot of how we handle disposed goods is definitely wrong. we mix materials with food waste and it makes everything gross and expensive to work with. food waste really should be a hard split from everything else but maybe one day
- bombcar 4y ago
  Replacing it teaches the kid that if you break something, it magically comes back like a respawn in a video game. I'd be very tempted to work with him to help clean it; let him do much of the grunt work whilst I helped and supervised (though to be honest I wouldn't be that hard on my kid for doing this unless he had been told don't do it beforehand. I've done enough boneheaded things in my day!).
  - cupofpython 4y ago
    the point is that OP was complaining about the time he didnt need to spend cleaning it >I'd be very tempted to work with him to help clean it; how is this being hard on your kid, but you doing it by yourself is totally normal and replacing it a total economic waste? Is it easy to fix or not?
- ryukafalz 4y ago
  It's also wasteful of energy and materials to scrap and replace something that's still perfectly functional.
  - cupofpython 4y ago
    except it isnt functional. it is covered in burnt cheese that will take hours to fix. it's a huge waste of time to clean off burnt cheese from such a tiny piece of material. collect a bunch of similar materials from the dump and bulk clean them all into workable materials again with a pressure washer in the same amount of time. Work an extra 2 hours, use the money to buy a new toaster, and spend the rest on food for the homeless. the moral argument is bullshit. it's a waste of your time, and the only reason you dont think so is because you get personal enjoyment out of fixing things (i do too)
- c22 4y ago
  It's only monetarily cheap because it's been built, like most modern things, with a massive externalization of its waste-cost.
  - cupofpython 4y ago
    Same for toilet paper but we flush it anyway. Everyone in this thread is suddenly zero-waste zealots.
    - xanaxagoras 4y ago
      Presumably until it comes to incremental updates to a phone, laptop, video game system, etc
- PhasmaFelis 4y ago
  It's totally reasonable for an individual to say "it's not worth my time and effort to fix this, I'll just replace it." Taking a moral stand against repair-and-reuse in general is weird. Some people are on a budget where replacing even a $25 toaster is not a painless expense. Some people don't like producing unnecessary waste. And throwing it away without replacing it punishes everyone in the house for the kid's mistake.
  - cupofpython 4y ago
    >Taking a moral stand against repair-and-reuse in general is weird Nowhere did I do this, and the claim is confusing because I am a supporter of repair-and-reuse in general. People are extrapolating from me saying specifically that a toaster is not worth it. Toasters cause house fires. I would always sooner replace it for $25 than salvage one. >And throwing it away without replacing it punishes everyone in the house for the kid's mistake. A lack of a toaster for a day or two hardly punishes anyone, and the child sees that other people can be impacted by their recklessness. > Some people are on a budget where replacing even a $25 toaster is not a painless expense Yeah, I am one of those people actually. I have an emergency fund that I would happily use for this 1-off incident.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

rglullis 4y ago

cupofpython 4y ago
are you okay?
- gpvos 4y ago
  Are you?

baggsie 4y ago

I would have made the kid do it