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why did this get downvoted? it's a valid point. This is actually the first time i've seen a downvoted comment that i just, really can't understand why it was

why did this get downvoted? it's a valid point. This is actually the first time i've seen a downvoted comment that i just, really can't understand why it was downvoted. Anyone care to explain?

sliverstorm 15y ago
I have seen this kind of thing more and more as of late. I have concluded we are beginning to see downvotes used as "dislike" rather than "disagree". For example, suppose I posted a comment irrefutably proving that Ruby was the worst programming language ever written. A year or two ago, I would have been upvoted for making useful observations. I suspect today I would be downvoted, because people like Ruby. Note: I have nothing against Ruby. It is an example.
- jiggy2011 15y ago
  The way I see it , downvoting is intended for comments which are "bad" (irrelevent , rude , incomprehensible , just rehashing what has already been said etc) this makes sense because downvoted comments are made harder to read. Just because most people disagree with a post does not necessarily mean it is not worth reading.. Pherhaps there should be a seperate disagree button but I don't see what purposes it would serve , when I read a comment I decide whether or not I agree with it , whether other people do or not does not matter unless they are pointing out factual errors.
  - sliverstorm 15y ago
    I'm also ok with downvoting for comments which you "disagree (factually)", aka you strongly believe the comment is simply objectively incorrect. For example, if I made an unsubstantiated statement that "Water is composed of Hydrogen and Nitrogen", that would be worthy of downvotes. Where that gets tricky is when someone asserts something couter to common wisdom, but attempts to substantiate it. You then need to evaluate their defense first.
    - jiggy2011 15y ago
      Yes, that is true but in the case of someone asserting something counter to common wisdom then I would err on the side of caution and not downvote. Better to reply directly and point out why they are probably wrong if you have the knowledge to do so. What really depresses is that they have a similar system on the comments for various UK newspaper websites (Daily Mail I'm looking at you) and you often find that the most uprated comments (which are then displayed at the top of the comments section) are arguments that allot of people may agree with but the arguments (and often the spelling) presented are just terrible and usually consist only of an Ad hominem attack on some person or organisation. I generally find a thoughtful defense of an unpopular viewpoint a much more interesting read than somebody who thinks they are clever by posting some content free attack on something that is trendy to hate. Ok, this rant is way off topic now and thankfully this sort of thing seems to be mostly absent from HN :)
    - ahlatimer 15y ago
      I'd say it's worse if you make an unsubstantiated statement that goes with the common wisdom than when you go against it. At least when a comment goes against common wisdom, substantiated or otherwise, it can spark interesting discussion. A rehash of commonly held beliefs generally doesn't spark anything that interesting and amounts to little more than noise.
julian37 15y ago
I'm mostly with sliverstorm (and upvoted him). People often wonder why I'm working on a 13" Macbook and ask if the display isn't too small. That's when I point to my head and tell them that's where the action takes place, not on the keyboard or the screen. (Obligatory: http://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&story=Negative_2000_Lines_Of_Code.txt http://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&s... ) That said, decent ergonomics are almost always a good thing. Even if you're not typing a lot, you'll probably still spend a lot of time looking at the screen. Having a bad setup maybe doesn't matter for your wrists in this case but it can still be detrimental to your eyesight and of course your back. Maybe that's why sliverstorm got downvoted: there are good reasons to care about ergonomics even if you're not typing a lot. (For what it's worth, my excuse is convenience: I'm working in lots of different places and I can't be bothered to lug around a huge notebook or an external keyboard. Before the age of notebooks I used to have a fairly ergonomic setup with a big screen and the awesome 1st gen Microsoft Natural Keyboard, and I often do miss it: maybe I'll return to such an "immobile" setup next time I have a job with a desk.)
- calibraxis 15y ago
  Ah, a fellow Natural Keyboard (Pro?) user! I buy a bunch of those used. However, the recent Microsoft Comfort Curve Keyboards seem to have an even better keypress feel for me. YMMV.
- kellishaver 15y ago
  > Having a bad setup maybe doesn't matter for your wrists in this case but it can still be detrimental to your eyesight and of course your back. I'm 33 and a year and a half ago I was diagnosed with degenerative disc disease in my neck from spending many years hunched over looking at things. I am extremely near-sighted (legally blind, actually) and that's the only way I can see to do... well, pretty much anything. I do a lot of stretching exercises now and have a ridiculously expensive pillow, which both help a great deal. I'd recommend them to people who do a lot of desk work. http://www.spine-health.com/conditions/neck-pain/neck-stretches http://www.spine-health.com/conditions/neck-pain/neck-stretc...
  - 15y ago
nitrogen 15y ago
This is actually the first time i've seen a downvoted comment that i just, really can't understand why it was downvoted. Anyone care to explain? Occasionally an unintended downvote happens when someone on a touchscreen tries to scroll or upvote.

why did this get downvoted? it's a valid point. This is actually the first time i've seen a downvoted comment that i just, really can't understand why it was downvoted. Anyone care to explain?

sliverstorm 15y ago

I have seen this kind of thing more and more as of late. I have concluded we are beginning to see downvotes used as "dislike" rather than "disagree". For example, suppose I posted a comment irrefutably proving that Ruby was the worst programming language ever written. A year or two ago, I would have been upvoted for making useful observations. I suspect today I would be downvoted, because people like Ruby. Note: I have nothing against Ruby. It is an example.

jiggy2011 15y ago
The way I see it , downvoting is intended for comments which are "bad" (irrelevent , rude , incomprehensible , just rehashing what has already been said etc) this makes sense because downvoted comments are made harder to read. Just because most people disagree with a post does not necessarily mean it is not worth reading.. Pherhaps there should be a seperate disagree button but I don't see what purposes it would serve , when I read a comment I decide whether or not I agree with it , whether other people do or not does not matter unless they are pointing out factual errors.
- sliverstorm 15y ago
  I'm also ok with downvoting for comments which you "disagree (factually)", aka you strongly believe the comment is simply objectively incorrect. For example, if I made an unsubstantiated statement that "Water is composed of Hydrogen and Nitrogen", that would be worthy of downvotes. Where that gets tricky is when someone asserts something couter to common wisdom, but attempts to substantiate it. You then need to evaluate their defense first.
  - jiggy2011 15y ago
    Yes, that is true but in the case of someone asserting something counter to common wisdom then I would err on the side of caution and not downvote. Better to reply directly and point out why they are probably wrong if you have the knowledge to do so. What really depresses is that they have a similar system on the comments for various UK newspaper websites (Daily Mail I'm looking at you) and you often find that the most uprated comments (which are then displayed at the top of the comments section) are arguments that allot of people may agree with but the arguments (and often the spelling) presented are just terrible and usually consist only of an Ad hominem attack on some person or organisation. I generally find a thoughtful defense of an unpopular viewpoint a much more interesting read than somebody who thinks they are clever by posting some content free attack on something that is trendy to hate. Ok, this rant is way off topic now and thankfully this sort of thing seems to be mostly absent from HN :)
  - ahlatimer 15y ago
    I'd say it's worse if you make an unsubstantiated statement that goes with the common wisdom than when you go against it. At least when a comment goes against common wisdom, substantiated or otherwise, it can spark interesting discussion. A rehash of commonly held beliefs generally doesn't spark anything that interesting and amounts to little more than noise.

julian37 15y ago

I'm mostly with sliverstorm (and upvoted him). People often wonder why I'm working on a 13" Macbook and ask if the display isn't too small. That's when I point to my head and tell them that's where the action takes place, not on the keyboard or the screen. (Obligatory: http://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&story=Negative_2000_Lines_Of_Code.txt http://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&s... ) That said, decent ergonomics are almost always a good thing. Even if you're not typing a lot, you'll probably still spend a lot of time looking at the screen. Having a bad setup maybe doesn't matter for your wrists in this case but it can still be detrimental to your eyesight and of course your back. Maybe that's why sliverstorm got downvoted: there are good reasons to care about ergonomics even if you're not typing a lot. (For what it's worth, my excuse is convenience: I'm working in lots of different places and I can't be bothered to lug around a huge notebook or an external keyboard. Before the age of notebooks I used to have a fairly ergonomic setup with a big screen and the awesome 1st gen Microsoft Natural Keyboard, and I often do miss it: maybe I'll return to such an "immobile" setup next time I have a job with a desk.)

calibraxis 15y ago
Ah, a fellow Natural Keyboard (Pro?) user! I buy a bunch of those used. However, the recent Microsoft Comfort Curve Keyboards seem to have an even better keypress feel for me. YMMV.
kellishaver 15y ago
> Having a bad setup maybe doesn't matter for your wrists in this case but it can still be detrimental to your eyesight and of course your back. I'm 33 and a year and a half ago I was diagnosed with degenerative disc disease in my neck from spending many years hunched over looking at things. I am extremely near-sighted (legally blind, actually) and that's the only way I can see to do... well, pretty much anything. I do a lot of stretching exercises now and have a ridiculously expensive pillow, which both help a great deal. I'd recommend them to people who do a lot of desk work. http://www.spine-health.com/conditions/neck-pain/neck-stretches http://www.spine-health.com/conditions/neck-pain/neck-stretc...
- 15y ago

nitrogen 15y ago

This is actually the first time i've seen a downvoted comment that i just, really can't understand why it was downvoted. Anyone care to explain? Occasionally an unintended downvote happens when someone on a touchscreen tries to scroll or upvote.