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Progress is dead! Long live the plane of immanence! history doesn't progress in a forward arrow. just like evolution, it explodes outwards in every direction a

by _oghd 4y ago

Progress is dead! Long live the plane of immanence! history doesn't progress in a forward arrow. just like evolution, it explodes outwards in every direction all at once, driven by desiring machines. humans, corporations, states, animals, plants, even the systems of the earth themselves have made themselves into political actors. anybody who has described a vector and metrics to demonstrate it should be scrutinized for their politics and what goals they are trying to achieve. economic indicators are used (by capitalist economists) to bludgeon those who dislike the status quo into accepting that "it's not as bad as you experience it" and keep chugging along towards our climate demise in the name of capital and profit.

cyber_kinetist 4y ago
Ah, meeting a Deleuzian in HN is like catching a rare wild Pokemon... The main gist I got from Deleuze and Guattari (without reading the actual books, only from people who seem to just endlessly talk about them) was: system dynamics are totally cool and rad, but we can only explain its coolness in excruciatingly obtuse language. Which is helpful for writing good poetry, but doesn't seem that helpful for actually making decisions in real life. (I've got to admit they have some really good quotable sentences in there too. Including the one that basically said in order to destroy capitalism you need to accelerate it, which spawned a mysterious cult in Warwick University.) Jokes aside, if you think progress is dead and the status quo is shit, what alternative society are you imagining? (I think this is the most important question you can ask to any leftist)
- LesZedCB 4y ago
  if I was really pressed to give my ideal, it would be some sort of gift economy based anarcho-syndicalism. but maybe I've been taken by the bogdanovists from KSRs mars trilogy, (or I guess Bogdanov's Red Star, though I haven't read it yet). as for D&G, really too bad it's notoriously hard to read. luckily I found some content out there that's more approachable to help me learn. their ideas, and Deleuze in particular, are captivating and astoundingly relevant decades later.

by _oghd 4y ago

cyber_kinetist 4y ago

Ah, meeting a Deleuzian in HN is like catching a rare wild Pokemon... The main gist I got from Deleuze and Guattari (without reading the actual books, only from people who seem to just endlessly talk about them) was: system dynamics are totally cool and rad, but we can only explain its coolness in excruciatingly obtuse language. Which is helpful for writing good poetry, but doesn't seem that helpful for actually making decisions in real life. (I've got to admit they have some really good quotable sentences in there too. Including the one that basically said in order to destroy capitalism you need to accelerate it, which spawned a mysterious cult in Warwick University.) Jokes aside, if you think progress is dead and the status quo is shit, what alternative society are you imagining? (I think this is the most important question you can ask to any leftist)

LesZedCB 4y ago
if I was really pressed to give my ideal, it would be some sort of gift economy based anarcho-syndicalism. but maybe I've been taken by the bogdanovists from KSRs mars trilogy, (or I guess Bogdanov's Red Star, though I haven't read it yet). as for D&G, really too bad it's notoriously hard to read. luckily I found some content out there that's more approachable to help me learn. their ideas, and Deleuze in particular, are captivating and astoundingly relevant decades later.