7 ms·

This is a characterization of fraternities that reeks of stereotype. What can you offer to substantiate the list of negative claims you're making about Stanford

This is a characterization of fraternities that reeks of stereotype. What can you offer to substantiate the list of negative claims you're making about Stanford fraternities? Eitan Weiner died due to fentanyl laced drugs. This death occurred in the new year, outside of the rush time frame so hazing is not a likely cause. Furthermore, it also ignores that plenty of other theme houses outside of greek life were also eliminated.

ketzo 4y ago
To be clear, these are all things that I personally watched happen and had happen to friends in fraternities. Not technically any Stanford ones, so I guess you got me there - maybe they were all squeaky clean. Google "hazing death" if you want to learn about the fun-time rituals of drinking, drugs, and abuse. Google "fraternity sexual assault" to learn why girls I knew avoided the "handsy house" -- careful, your computer might not be able to handle that many search results. As for institutionalized discrimination -- what exactly do you think goes on at rush deliberations? Why else would fraternities be so overwhelmingly white and rich? And Greek houses aren't the only ones who do these things. See my other comments.
- Steven_Vellon 4y ago
  > To be clear, these are all things that I personally watched happen and had happen to friends in fraternities. Not technically any Stanford ones, so I guess you got me there - maybe they were all squeaky clean. Not technically any Stanford ones? Can you elaborate on what you mean by "technically"? Because it sounds like those statements you wrote are not based on any experience whatsoever with the fraternities and other group houses covered in the article. Just your own personal experiences with other fraternities, and an assumption that they're all the same.
  - ketzo 4y ago
    "technically not Stanford" meaning I have heard horror stories from 15+ fraternities at 5+ schools -- but not Stanford. So hopefully you'll forgive me if I generalize. Especially when one of the most widely-storied campus sexual assault cases in recent years happened at the Stanford Kappa Alpha house [1] -- the first fraternity house mentioned in the linked article. [1] https://archive.ph/hxcgw https://archive.ph/hxcgw
    - Steven_Vellon 4y ago
      Please read your sources, Turner did not carry out the assault at KA. He and the victims met at a part at KA and Turner assaulted after leaving the fraternity. The article writes that it was "just outside" but it was out of sight of the fraternity house, some ways away.
      - Godel_unicode 4y ago
        This is a distinction without a difference.
        Steven_Vellon 4y ago
        The fact that the rape didn't occur at the fraternity makes no difference? The previous commenter makes it sound like a rape was perpetrated inside the fraternity in clear view. In reality no one at the fraternity would have been able to observe the crime. Imagine someone says, "a man was murdered at your house and you did nothing!" when in reality the murder took place a couple minutes walk away, where you had no ability to observe the crime. Seems like a very big distinction to me.
        9935c101ab17a66 4y ago
        Turner allegedly tried to sexually assault other people AT the frat house party. It’s also where they both consumed large amounts of alcohol (isn’t turner under age in the Us?). Also, you argue that didn’t take place at the frat house but as far as I can tell, it took place behind a dumpster RIGHT next to house, and maybe still on the house’s property (hardly a couple of minutes walk away) And, in response to your last point (“no one at the frat would have been able to observe the crime ”), he was literally stopped by two grad students cycling by. Regardless, I agree with the other commenter — distinction without difference.

ketzo 4y ago

To be clear, these are all things that I personally watched happen and had happen to friends in fraternities. Not technically any Stanford ones, so I guess you got me there - maybe they were all squeaky clean. Google "hazing death" if you want to learn about the fun-time rituals of drinking, drugs, and abuse. Google "fraternity sexual assault" to learn why girls I knew avoided the "handsy house" -- careful, your computer might not be able to handle that many search results. As for institutionalized discrimination -- what exactly do you think goes on at rush deliberations? Why else would fraternities be so overwhelmingly white and rich? And Greek houses aren't the only ones who do these things. See my other comments.

Steven_Vellon 4y ago
> To be clear, these are all things that I personally watched happen and had happen to friends in fraternities. Not technically any Stanford ones, so I guess you got me there - maybe they were all squeaky clean. Not technically any Stanford ones? Can you elaborate on what you mean by "technically"? Because it sounds like those statements you wrote are not based on any experience whatsoever with the fraternities and other group houses covered in the article. Just your own personal experiences with other fraternities, and an assumption that they're all the same.
- ketzo 4y ago
  "technically not Stanford" meaning I have heard horror stories from 15+ fraternities at 5+ schools -- but not Stanford. So hopefully you'll forgive me if I generalize. Especially when one of the most widely-storied campus sexual assault cases in recent years happened at the Stanford Kappa Alpha house [1] -- the first fraternity house mentioned in the linked article. [1] https://archive.ph/hxcgw https://archive.ph/hxcgw
  - Steven_Vellon 4y ago
    Please read your sources, Turner did not carry out the assault at KA. He and the victims met at a part at KA and Turner assaulted after leaving the fraternity. The article writes that it was "just outside" but it was out of sight of the fraternity house, some ways away.
    - Godel_unicode 4y ago
      This is a distinction without a difference.
      - Steven_Vellon 4y ago
        The fact that the rape didn't occur at the fraternity makes no difference? The previous commenter makes it sound like a rape was perpetrated inside the fraternity in clear view. In reality no one at the fraternity would have been able to observe the crime. Imagine someone says, "a man was murdered at your house and you did nothing!" when in reality the murder took place a couple minutes walk away, where you had no ability to observe the crime. Seems like a very big distinction to me.
        9935c101ab17a66 4y ago
        Turner allegedly tried to sexually assault other people AT the frat house party. It’s also where they both consumed large amounts of alcohol (isn’t turner under age in the Us?). Also, you argue that didn’t take place at the frat house but as far as I can tell, it took place behind a dumpster RIGHT next to house, and maybe still on the house’s property (hardly a couple of minutes walk away) And, in response to your last point (“no one at the frat would have been able to observe the crime ”), he was literally stopped by two grad students cycling by. Regardless, I agree with the other commenter — distinction without difference.