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Also, it seems like just knowing some of the dead ends would be a huge step up. Like maybe we don't waste a ton of time and resources trying to turn lead into

Also, it seems like just knowing some of the dead ends would be a huge step up. Like maybe we don't waste a ton of time and resources trying to turn lead into gold, or teaching left-handed kids to be right-handed, or trying to figure out which ritual to perform to which deity to make the crops grow.

Archelaos 4y ago
> Also, it seems like just knowing some of the dead ends would be a huge step up. This makes me think, how Knowledge in a post-apocalyptic society would really work. Some fundamental and comparatively easy technologies might not need to be rediscovered (directly jump to iron and omit bronze). But more advanced Knowledge needs a lot of special training, dedicated institutions, etc. And even if they had access to tales from the Ancients, they would still have to distinguish between valid and invalid information. Otherwise, we could end up with a culture of Flat Earthers.
- bluefirebrand 4y ago
  You wouldn't just have access to the knowledge via tales, but the world around you. You want to say the earth is flat? Why did the ancients have globes, then? You want to say man made flight is impossible? Here is an airport with planes. Sure we have never gotten them running but what else could they do except fly? Granted... Never underestimate the willful ignorance of the masses I suppose.
  - Archelaos 4y ago
    I wanted to emphasis the necessity to re-establish a scientific culture. Knowledge without experience and only from lore would be no real knowledge. Without a collective scientific practice there would be no ground to destinguish between true and false lore. They need to discover science for themselves again. It might be a bit easier and faster though, considering all the hints they would have, as you described it.
jerry1979 4y ago
In terms of doing the work of rebuilding civilization, I bet that you have under-rated the role of organized superstition. At the very least, it seems to play the role of superego for the group, and thereby it can prevent incessant bickering and can guide group efforts.
- OttoVonBizark 4y ago
  oh for sure, but to be effective it would need to be a planned or at least guided superstition and not the horrible random hodge-podge of legacy nonsense we are stuck with now
- indy 4y ago
  But it seems that we (in the West) are spending a ton of our time bickering over modern superstitions.
- formerkrogemp 4y ago
  Yes, it helps when explaining rules to persnickety and unrepentant knaves that they should do what you say or they'll face supernatural terror.
  - jerry1979 4y ago
    Another way to look at it is that the bickering is not just between people but also internal bickering. Having "superstitious" beliefs allows people to receive sublime commands but also gives them sublime permission.
- Shorel 4y ago
  How would we know? Has this ever been tested? Or is it just an instance of: “this is the status quo, accept it”.
  - jerry1979 4y ago
    I'm not an anthropologist, but I think the effectiveness of groups like the Freemasons indicates the power of myth and superstitious belief.
imtringued 4y ago
I hope they realize that synthetic fertilizers are a dead end.
- JoeAltmaier 4y ago
  They only fed billions? Enabled 98% of humanity to leave farming and invent civilization?

Archelaos 4y ago

> Also, it seems like just knowing some of the dead ends would be a huge step up. This makes me think, how Knowledge in a post-apocalyptic society would really work. Some fundamental and comparatively easy technologies might not need to be rediscovered (directly jump to iron and omit bronze). But more advanced Knowledge needs a lot of special training, dedicated institutions, etc. And even if they had access to tales from the Ancients, they would still have to distinguish between valid and invalid information. Otherwise, we could end up with a culture of Flat Earthers.

bluefirebrand 4y ago
You wouldn't just have access to the knowledge via tales, but the world around you. You want to say the earth is flat? Why did the ancients have globes, then? You want to say man made flight is impossible? Here is an airport with planes. Sure we have never gotten them running but what else could they do except fly? Granted... Never underestimate the willful ignorance of the masses I suppose.
- Archelaos 4y ago
  I wanted to emphasis the necessity to re-establish a scientific culture. Knowledge without experience and only from lore would be no real knowledge. Without a collective scientific practice there would be no ground to destinguish between true and false lore. They need to discover science for themselves again. It might be a bit easier and faster though, considering all the hints they would have, as you described it.

jerry1979 4y ago

In terms of doing the work of rebuilding civilization, I bet that you have under-rated the role of organized superstition. At the very least, it seems to play the role of superego for the group, and thereby it can prevent incessant bickering and can guide group efforts.

OttoVonBizark 4y ago
oh for sure, but to be effective it would need to be a planned or at least guided superstition and not the horrible random hodge-podge of legacy nonsense we are stuck with now
indy 4y ago
But it seems that we (in the West) are spending a ton of our time bickering over modern superstitions.
formerkrogemp 4y ago
Yes, it helps when explaining rules to persnickety and unrepentant knaves that they should do what you say or they'll face supernatural terror.
- jerry1979 4y ago
  Another way to look at it is that the bickering is not just between people but also internal bickering. Having "superstitious" beliefs allows people to receive sublime commands but also gives them sublime permission.
Shorel 4y ago
How would we know? Has this ever been tested? Or is it just an instance of: “this is the status quo, accept it”.
- jerry1979 4y ago
  I'm not an anthropologist, but I think the effectiveness of groups like the Freemasons indicates the power of myth and superstitious belief.

imtringued 4y ago

I hope they realize that synthetic fertilizers are a dead end.

JoeAltmaier 4y ago
They only fed billions? Enabled 98% of humanity to leave farming and invent civilization?