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Absolutely! The "no shortage if you pay enough" slogan is a double-edged sword. - Is there a housing shortage if you pay enough? or - is there a health-care s

Absolutely! The "no shortage if you pay enough" slogan is a double-edged sword. - Is there a housing shortage if you pay enough? or - is there a health-care shortage if you pay enough? : : on & on.

paskozdilar 4y ago
So every shortage is just money shortage.
- ivoras 4y ago
  Money is basically just a way to motivate other people to do something for you :D We as a civilisation obviously CAN build houses, utilities, hairdressers, space rockets, grow food, etc. - the question is simply "why" (in the literal, low-level sense: why would I do that for you? even if the economy at large would benefit from it, I just don't feel like working today, and besides, I don't know you well enough). And money (and capitalism in general) is a flawed, crude, but so far the only way the "why" gets answered for the majority of people. Another way of making someone do something for you, obviously, is to be very, very persuasive.
  - nicoburns 4y ago
    Money is a way of measuring how much economic power someone (or some legal entity) has accrued. If you have money, then you can get someone to do something for YOU. Whether the economy at large will benefit from it depends entirely on whether those with money spend it wisely. This tends to work out reasonably well so long as (monetary) wealth is relatively evenly-spread. But not always. And of course, money in contemporary society is not that evenly spread.
    - t0suj4 4y ago
      Money is primarily measuring of how much their time other people were willing to sacrifice for the service or goods offered by the subject.
      - sokoloff 4y ago
        Warren Buffett's short interview snippet agreeing with that point: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Et7IVFOhtIE&t=131s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Et7IVFOhtIE&t=131s From the same interview, he shares some thoughts on reasons for a debtor country to strongly favor inflation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Et7IVFOhtIE&t=408s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Et7IVFOhtIE&t=408s
    - ghaff 4y ago
      >money in contemporary society is not that evenly spread. No. Although on average it's more evenly spread in the West than in some other countries. There are a lot of personal services that are fairly common in some countries (drivers, personal chefs, etc.) that aren't really affordable except as a time-bounded or occasional thing to anyone who isn't very wealthy in the US, say.
  - nradov 4y ago
    This is why successful startup founders are often as persuasive as cult leaders.
goodpoint 4y ago
Wrong. The "if you pay enough" is related to the available resources. There is real housing shortage when people on minimum income cannot afford a house. There is real health care shortage when people on minimum income cannot afford health care. There NO labor shortage when many big companies belong to billionaires that get wealthier every day (even during Covid). Small companies might survive or die but large companies are the ones driving salary expectations the most. Those big companies obviously CAN pay more. The owners are not going to sleep under a bridge anytime soon.
- simonh 4y ago
  On the first three points yes absolutely. The argument that you can always pay more to get what you need fails when you literally can't pay any more. Somebody will lose out. That's what shortage means, there literally isn't enough to go around to everyone. Now for some things that might be ok. If there's a shortage of Superyachts and not every oligarch can get one or afford one, I'm not going to loose sleep over that. But if it's housing or health care as you say yes, shortages and inflation absolutely mean some go without. The exact same argument applies to employers hiring workers, the question is are workers like Superyachts where a shortage or inflating prices are not a problem in the grand scheme of things, or are they like houses and health care where a shortage is a serious problem. I think it very much varies depending on the sector of the economy affected. On your fourth point, not every business is run by a billionaire getting ever wealthier. Half of employees work for small businesses, and 60% of new businesses fail in the first 3 years. The world isn't composed only of oligarchs and minimum wage workers. Is a shortage of butlers and chauffeurs a problem? No. Their employers can pay them more or go without. Does a shortage of nurses matter? Absolutely, but most jobs are somewhere in between in importance and value to society. Some goods and services that the poorest in society depend on are labour intensive and wages compose a high proportion of the costs. Shortages of workers in those sectors and inflating wage costs translate into higher prices that can disproportionately hurt those least able to pay more.
  - goodpoint 4y ago
    > Some goods and services that the poorest in society depend on are labour intensive and wages compose a high proportion of the costs As you said, "some", and you are further restricting the fraction with "the poorest in society depend on". But the article is about "US labor shortage", in general. And the market, in general, is very heavily influenced by big players. > Shortages of workers in those sectors and inflating wage costs translate into higher prices that can disproportionately hurt those least able to pay more. So, what's your point?

Absolutely! The "no shortage if you pay enough" slogan is a double-edged sword. - Is there a housing shortage if you pay enough? or - is there a health-care shortage if you pay enough? : : on & on.

paskozdilar 4y ago

So every shortage is just money shortage.

ivoras 4y ago
Money is basically just a way to motivate other people to do something for you :D We as a civilisation obviously CAN build houses, utilities, hairdressers, space rockets, grow food, etc. - the question is simply "why" (in the literal, low-level sense: why would I do that for you? even if the economy at large would benefit from it, I just don't feel like working today, and besides, I don't know you well enough). And money (and capitalism in general) is a flawed, crude, but so far the only way the "why" gets answered for the majority of people. Another way of making someone do something for you, obviously, is to be very, very persuasive.
- nicoburns 4y ago
  Money is a way of measuring how much economic power someone (or some legal entity) has accrued. If you have money, then you can get someone to do something for YOU. Whether the economy at large will benefit from it depends entirely on whether those with money spend it wisely. This tends to work out reasonably well so long as (monetary) wealth is relatively evenly-spread. But not always. And of course, money in contemporary society is not that evenly spread.
  - t0suj4 4y ago
    Money is primarily measuring of how much their time other people were willing to sacrifice for the service or goods offered by the subject.
    - sokoloff 4y ago
      Warren Buffett's short interview snippet agreeing with that point: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Et7IVFOhtIE&t=131s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Et7IVFOhtIE&t=131s From the same interview, he shares some thoughts on reasons for a debtor country to strongly favor inflation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Et7IVFOhtIE&t=408s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Et7IVFOhtIE&t=408s
  - ghaff 4y ago
    >money in contemporary society is not that evenly spread. No. Although on average it's more evenly spread in the West than in some other countries. There are a lot of personal services that are fairly common in some countries (drivers, personal chefs, etc.) that aren't really affordable except as a time-bounded or occasional thing to anyone who isn't very wealthy in the US, say.
- nradov 4y ago
  This is why successful startup founders are often as persuasive as cult leaders.

goodpoint 4y ago

Wrong. The "if you pay enough" is related to the available resources. There is real housing shortage when people on minimum income cannot afford a house. There is real health care shortage when people on minimum income cannot afford health care. There NO labor shortage when many big companies belong to billionaires that get wealthier every day (even during Covid). Small companies might survive or die but large companies are the ones driving salary expectations the most. Those big companies obviously CAN pay more. The owners are not going to sleep under a bridge anytime soon.

simonh 4y ago
On the first three points yes absolutely. The argument that you can always pay more to get what you need fails when you literally can't pay any more. Somebody will lose out. That's what shortage means, there literally isn't enough to go around to everyone. Now for some things that might be ok. If there's a shortage of Superyachts and not every oligarch can get one or afford one, I'm not going to loose sleep over that. But if it's housing or health care as you say yes, shortages and inflation absolutely mean some go without. The exact same argument applies to employers hiring workers, the question is are workers like Superyachts where a shortage or inflating prices are not a problem in the grand scheme of things, or are they like houses and health care where a shortage is a serious problem. I think it very much varies depending on the sector of the economy affected. On your fourth point, not every business is run by a billionaire getting ever wealthier. Half of employees work for small businesses, and 60% of new businesses fail in the first 3 years. The world isn't composed only of oligarchs and minimum wage workers. Is a shortage of butlers and chauffeurs a problem? No. Their employers can pay them more or go without. Does a shortage of nurses matter? Absolutely, but most jobs are somewhere in between in importance and value to society. Some goods and services that the poorest in society depend on are labour intensive and wages compose a high proportion of the costs. Shortages of workers in those sectors and inflating wage costs translate into higher prices that can disproportionately hurt those least able to pay more.
- goodpoint 4y ago
  > Some goods and services that the poorest in society depend on are labour intensive and wages compose a high proportion of the costs As you said, "some", and you are further restricting the fraction with "the poorest in society depend on". But the article is about "US labor shortage", in general. And the market, in general, is very heavily influenced by big players. > Shortages of workers in those sectors and inflating wage costs translate into higher prices that can disproportionately hurt those least able to pay more. So, what's your point?