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To present an alternate point of view, I never grokked this idea of free soda, free food, catered lunches, sleeping pods, dry-cleaning, massages, ping-pong tabl

To present an alternate point of view, I never grokked this idea of free soda, free food, catered lunches, sleeping pods, dry-cleaning, massages, ping-pong table as a way to attract talents. If I took a risk to work for a startup, I want a lean machine that pays me in ridiculous cash or ridiculous options, and obscene milestone bonuses. The only thing I think I'd really care about is "bring your dog to work" and "onsite/nearby child-care", there's no substitute or purchasing-equiv to that. A startup is an intense high-stress environment where focused work and time is invaluable; none of those "perks" directly drive the goals, if anything they seem hedonistic distractions from the goal.

JoeAltmaier 4y ago
I think the point of supplying food and drink on-premises is exactly that, to foster "focused work and time " The objection isn't so much the price then put on the food and drink. It's the conversion of 'valued employee' to 'hourly crank-turner'. No longer a valued critical member of a team, now the corporation regards you as a 'resource'. E.g. did the executive perks disappear too? No? Now you know what pigeonhole you've been placed in (demoted to).
probably_wrong 4y ago
I like the explanation from this article [1] titled "Why perks matter": because perks like that avoid context switches and remove "distractions and other things which could disrupt [my] flow". As a human being who regularly needs to eat, not having to worry about having the right amount of snacks and/or change at hand can make or break my day. Trying to code while hungry is a waste of everybody's time and money, which is how free food pays for itself. And don't get me started on trying to code when all you really want is a nap... [1] https://rachelbythebay.com/w/2012/11/16/context/ https://rachelbythebay.com/w/2012/11/16/context/
rootusrootus 4y ago
I thought I remembered reading somewhere that Google (or some company in a similar position) had worked out the math and figured that the free meals more than paid for themselves in increased productivity (or at least seat time) because employees weren't getting up to go off-site to find lunch. As often as not they'd be quickly back at their desk coding away.
- a4isms 4y ago
  Never mind startups, I once had a client who was in the printing business, a numbers-driven blue-collar culture at the time. They worked out the loss of productivity from workers going out to the coffee truck and decided it was a win to spend a little money on coffee if it kept workers from going outside when they heard the truck’s horn.
- thehappypm 4y ago
  What’s funny about Google is that people will travel across campus (sometimes even to other nearby campuses) for better food! It’s still much faster than eating out, though.
- titanomachy 4y ago
  As an employee I also find it more convenient. I don't really want to pick people to go to lunch with, wait to be seated at a restaurant, wait for someone to take my order, receive a standardized quantity/proportion of food, wait for someone to come with the bill, decide how much to tip, etc. Instead I serve myself the exact proportions that I want, go find friends to sit with, eat, chat, then drop off my dishes and leave. The rituals of eating out and having food prepared to order are expensive and don't provide a lot of value to me over self-serve, generally speaking.
freetime2 4y ago
I tend to agree with this viewpoint. I actually found that my happiness decreased when a company I was working for started providing free lunch every day. The lunch break - along with a change of scenery, a short walk, and the freedom to choose whatever I wanted for lunch - was important for my well being. Also, employees would often complain about the free lunch options on certain days, which is kind of sad. I suppose it would have been different if it were a big campus at a FAANG, though, where they have lots of different restaurants to choose from spread out through multiple buildings. There you still get most of the benefits of the lunch break that I felt I was missing out on. And I assume there are certain efficiency benefits to be had at that scale vs. having thousands of employees all having to fend for themselves.
renewiltord 4y ago
That's the thing: these things are cheap. I can't pay you that much more if I don't give you free soda and food.
onlyrealcuzzo 4y ago
Nothing saves time like not having to leave the office for snacks and drinks. Maybe you're organized enough to have the stuff you want stocked for yourself and ready. Many people aren't. And as the article points out - this stuff doesn't cost much. You're not going to get a significant raise if they don't have a pingpong table and Le Croix. It's also a little bit of an accounting trick IIUC. Those things are expenses for the company and tax deductible. If you buy them yourself - you're probably paying >40% income tax on it.
speeder 4y ago
I once worked on a company that made me understand the value of this stuff. My project was late, I was coding desperately, sometimes skipping lunch to have enough time, I had to leave using a bus on a specific time so I couldn't just stay late. I realized then, that whenever I wanted to drink a coffee or a tea, there was one, hot, on my table, and I didn't fetch it! Snacks too sometimes! And whenever I left to go to the bathroom or some random reason, when I got back, my place was clean too! This meant I could focus on my work, just coding, I didn't had to think about fetching coffee or tea, all I had to do was work, and whenever I needed coffee or tea or food, it would be there, ready, on a clean desk. It made me realize the service staff worked as a sort of "force multiplier" for the company, you hire a few of them, and a lot of programmers can squeeze more work hours, and what you spend on the service staff wages, you save on programmers wages that you would be wasting if they were wandering around looking for food or caffeine.
- titanomachy 4y ago
  How did the staff magically intuit your needs like that? Personally I don't mind getting up and walking one or two minutes to fetch those things, I think it helps keep me sane.

JoeAltmaier 4y ago

I think the point of supplying food and drink on-premises is exactly that, to foster "focused work and time " The objection isn't so much the price then put on the food and drink. It's the conversion of 'valued employee' to 'hourly crank-turner'. No longer a valued critical member of a team, now the corporation regards you as a 'resource'. E.g. did the executive perks disappear too? No? Now you know what pigeonhole you've been placed in (demoted to).

probably_wrong 4y ago

I like the explanation from this article [1] titled "Why perks matter": because perks like that avoid context switches and remove "distractions and other things which could disrupt [my] flow". As a human being who regularly needs to eat, not having to worry about having the right amount of snacks and/or change at hand can make or break my day. Trying to code while hungry is a waste of everybody's time and money, which is how free food pays for itself. And don't get me started on trying to code when all you really want is a nap... [1] https://rachelbythebay.com/w/2012/11/16/context/ https://rachelbythebay.com/w/2012/11/16/context/

rootusrootus 4y ago

I thought I remembered reading somewhere that Google (or some company in a similar position) had worked out the math and figured that the free meals more than paid for themselves in increased productivity (or at least seat time) because employees weren't getting up to go off-site to find lunch. As often as not they'd be quickly back at their desk coding away.

a4isms 4y ago
Never mind startups, I once had a client who was in the printing business, a numbers-driven blue-collar culture at the time. They worked out the loss of productivity from workers going out to the coffee truck and decided it was a win to spend a little money on coffee if it kept workers from going outside when they heard the truck’s horn.
thehappypm 4y ago
What’s funny about Google is that people will travel across campus (sometimes even to other nearby campuses) for better food! It’s still much faster than eating out, though.
titanomachy 4y ago
As an employee I also find it more convenient. I don't really want to pick people to go to lunch with, wait to be seated at a restaurant, wait for someone to take my order, receive a standardized quantity/proportion of food, wait for someone to come with the bill, decide how much to tip, etc. Instead I serve myself the exact proportions that I want, go find friends to sit with, eat, chat, then drop off my dishes and leave. The rituals of eating out and having food prepared to order are expensive and don't provide a lot of value to me over self-serve, generally speaking.

freetime2 4y ago

I tend to agree with this viewpoint. I actually found that my happiness decreased when a company I was working for started providing free lunch every day. The lunch break - along with a change of scenery, a short walk, and the freedom to choose whatever I wanted for lunch - was important for my well being. Also, employees would often complain about the free lunch options on certain days, which is kind of sad. I suppose it would have been different if it were a big campus at a FAANG, though, where they have lots of different restaurants to choose from spread out through multiple buildings. There you still get most of the benefits of the lunch break that I felt I was missing out on. And I assume there are certain efficiency benefits to be had at that scale vs. having thousands of employees all having to fend for themselves.

renewiltord 4y ago

That's the thing: these things are cheap. I can't pay you that much more if I don't give you free soda and food.

onlyrealcuzzo 4y ago

Nothing saves time like not having to leave the office for snacks and drinks. Maybe you're organized enough to have the stuff you want stocked for yourself and ready. Many people aren't. And as the article points out - this stuff doesn't cost much. You're not going to get a significant raise if they don't have a pingpong table and Le Croix. It's also a little bit of an accounting trick IIUC. Those things are expenses for the company and tax deductible. If you buy them yourself - you're probably paying >40% income tax on it.

speeder 4y ago

I once worked on a company that made me understand the value of this stuff. My project was late, I was coding desperately, sometimes skipping lunch to have enough time, I had to leave using a bus on a specific time so I couldn't just stay late. I realized then, that whenever I wanted to drink a coffee or a tea, there was one, hot, on my table, and I didn't fetch it! Snacks too sometimes! And whenever I left to go to the bathroom or some random reason, when I got back, my place was clean too! This meant I could focus on my work, just coding, I didn't had to think about fetching coffee or tea, all I had to do was work, and whenever I needed coffee or tea or food, it would be there, ready, on a clean desk. It made me realize the service staff worked as a sort of "force multiplier" for the company, you hire a few of them, and a lot of programmers can squeeze more work hours, and what you spend on the service staff wages, you save on programmers wages that you would be wasting if they were wandering around looking for food or caffeine.

titanomachy 4y ago
How did the staff magically intuit your needs like that? Personally I don't mind getting up and walking one or two minutes to fetch those things, I think it helps keep me sane.