5 ms·

How the Offspring’s Lead Singer Went from Punk to PhD

19 points by gnu8 4y ago

Yaa101 4y ago
For most of my generation Punk does not mean how you look but is a mindset. The mindset is 2 fold, first of all it means "I can do anything unless it showed that I failed a particular thing, then it means I cannot do that one thing but still can do anything else", and also it means, "If needed I will do it myself". So for me he is still punk and I think he thinks that himself too.
- mc32 4y ago
  Hmmmm. In high school for me it was a look and attitude rather than mindset. It was steeped in groupthink as well and othering too. It wasn’t much different in function from other in-groups out-groups. So really YMMV. Yes there were likely “intellectual punks” just like there was “intellectual rap/hip-hop” and there were thoughtful and nice jocks but the vast majority was just run of had mill stuff.
  - soylentcola 4y ago
    I definitely remember this as well, but I also think that a lot of that is part and parcel of high school. Young people trying to figure out where they fit in, falling into the usual pecking-order-type behavior that so often results from insecurity, etc. But I also know that as I got a little older (into my later teens/20's) there were definitely a lot of fellow "freaks and geeks" that were drawn to punk and other ostensibly "outsider" music and art forms. I think a lot of it had to do with being the sort of people who either never had it in them to be part of the "in group" and were forced to learn the joys of exploration/experimentation, or those who just had a natural curiosity and maybe a bit of a contrarian outlook that led to that sort of thing. But yeah, I definitely remember quite a few times being brushed off by the other "alt" kids in school because despite sharing a lot of cultural interests, I had fairly strict parents and wasn't allowed to dress "wild" (or what high school kids considered "wild" at least).
  - jghn 4y ago
    It's a bit of both, but the general trend over time has been away from the mindset and more to the look/groupthink. In particular in the late 80s through 90s. Granted one of the most iconic OG punk bands (Sex Pistols) were literally formed to sell a look. The punk ethos is a real thing. And the punk look is a real thing. Sometimes they overlap. Sometimes they do not.
- bytematic 4y ago
  I quite like the idea that punk was about annihilation, if you found out the missiles were on their way, you’d probably start saying what you always wanted to. From Legs McNeil of Punk Magazine: "This wonderful vital force that was articulated by the music was really about corrupting every form—it was about advocating kids to not wait to be told what to do, but make life up for themselves, it was about trying to get people to use their imaginations again, it was about not being perfect, it was about saying it was okay to be amateurish and funny, that real creativity came out of making a mess, it was about working with what you got in front of you and turning everything embarrassing, awful, and stupid in your life to your advantage."
lawgimenez 4y ago
This is a big deal but Greg of Bad Religion was the first known punk rocker with PhD. He's known as the punk rock professor.
- derstander 4y ago
  I think Milo Aukerman (of Descendents fame) earned his PhD before Greg Graffin. And before Milo, Gregg Turner (of the Angry Samoans). Though certainly Bad Religion are more well-known. The article does mention each of them in varying level of detail.
  - lawgimenez 4y ago
    Yes you are right, I forgot about Milo but it seems he does not really discuss his PhD openly. I might be wrong though.
  - rurban 4y ago
    And maybe Brian May (Queen, Astrophysicist, Imperial Collega) and Dan Snaith (Caribou, Math, Imperial College) deserve a mention. Did Grimes never finish?
    - adfm 4y ago
      Also, Brian May built his own guitar, which is rather punk, if you’d ask me.
      - twangist 4y ago
        Well, it really rather isn't. Punks aren't renowned for musicianship and appreciation of finely crafted instruments. Most 'punks' would have little idea of what to do with a Brian May model Gretsch. But making your own guitar is rather garage, if you'd asked me, as garages are often workshops.
        soylentcola 4y ago
        I think it was a reference to the crossover between "punk" and a DIY ethic. Although, in fairness, the concept of "punk" has meant so many different things to so many people. One person's punk is about arrogant rebellion and breaking shit. Another's is about giving a more metaphorical "middle finger" to expectations and striking your own path outside of the more commercial/disposable monoculture. At least when I was growing up, it was definitely my introduction to the "no true Scotsman" argument, but I think a level of conscious iconoclasm is inherent in any definition.

19 points by gnu8 4y ago

For most of my generation Punk does not mean how you look but is a mindset. The mindset is 2 fold, first of all it means "I can do anything unless it showed that I failed a particular thing, then it means I cannot do that one thing but still can do anything else", and also it means, "If needed I will do it myself". So for me he is still punk and I think he thinks that himself too.

mc32 4y ago
Hmmmm. In high school for me it was a look and attitude rather than mindset. It was steeped in groupthink as well and othering too. It wasn’t much different in function from other in-groups out-groups. So really YMMV. Yes there were likely “intellectual punks” just like there was “intellectual rap/hip-hop” and there were thoughtful and nice jocks but the vast majority was just run of had mill stuff.
- soylentcola 4y ago
  I definitely remember this as well, but I also think that a lot of that is part and parcel of high school. Young people trying to figure out where they fit in, falling into the usual pecking-order-type behavior that so often results from insecurity, etc. But I also know that as I got a little older (into my later teens/20's) there were definitely a lot of fellow "freaks and geeks" that were drawn to punk and other ostensibly "outsider" music and art forms. I think a lot of it had to do with being the sort of people who either never had it in them to be part of the "in group" and were forced to learn the joys of exploration/experimentation, or those who just had a natural curiosity and maybe a bit of a contrarian outlook that led to that sort of thing. But yeah, I definitely remember quite a few times being brushed off by the other "alt" kids in school because despite sharing a lot of cultural interests, I had fairly strict parents and wasn't allowed to dress "wild" (or what high school kids considered "wild" at least).
- jghn 4y ago
  It's a bit of both, but the general trend over time has been away from the mindset and more to the look/groupthink. In particular in the late 80s through 90s. Granted one of the most iconic OG punk bands (Sex Pistols) were literally formed to sell a look. The punk ethos is a real thing. And the punk look is a real thing. Sometimes they overlap. Sometimes they do not.
bytematic 4y ago
I quite like the idea that punk was about annihilation, if you found out the missiles were on their way, you’d probably start saying what you always wanted to. From Legs McNeil of Punk Magazine: "This wonderful vital force that was articulated by the music was really about corrupting every form—it was about advocating kids to not wait to be told what to do, but make life up for themselves, it was about trying to get people to use their imaginations again, it was about not being perfect, it was about saying it was okay to be amateurish and funny, that real creativity came out of making a mess, it was about working with what you got in front of you and turning everything embarrassing, awful, and stupid in your life to your advantage."

lawgimenez 4y ago

This is a big deal but Greg of Bad Religion was the first known punk rocker with PhD. He's known as the punk rock professor.

derstander 4y ago
I think Milo Aukerman (of Descendents fame) earned his PhD before Greg Graffin. And before Milo, Gregg Turner (of the Angry Samoans). Though certainly Bad Religion are more well-known. The article does mention each of them in varying level of detail.
- lawgimenez 4y ago
  Yes you are right, I forgot about Milo but it seems he does not really discuss his PhD openly. I might be wrong though.
- rurban 4y ago
  And maybe Brian May (Queen, Astrophysicist, Imperial Collega) and Dan Snaith (Caribou, Math, Imperial College) deserve a mention. Did Grimes never finish?
  - adfm 4y ago
    Also, Brian May built his own guitar, which is rather punk, if you’d ask me.
    - twangist 4y ago
      Well, it really rather isn't. Punks aren't renowned for musicianship and appreciation of finely crafted instruments. Most 'punks' would have little idea of what to do with a Brian May model Gretsch. But making your own guitar is rather garage, if you'd asked me, as garages are often workshops.
      - soylentcola 4y ago
        I think it was a reference to the crossover between "punk" and a DIY ethic. Although, in fairness, the concept of "punk" has meant so many different things to so many people. One person's punk is about arrogant rebellion and breaking shit. Another's is about giving a more metaphorical "middle finger" to expectations and striking your own path outside of the more commercial/disposable monoculture. At least when I was growing up, it was definitely my introduction to the "no true Scotsman" argument, but I think a level of conscious iconoclasm is inherent in any definition.