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If average Jane, who is not a raving Tesla fan, wants to spend circa $140K on an EV, and she has to choose between the Mercedes EQS 580 and the Tesla Model X, w

by abzolv 4y ago

If average Jane, who is not a raving Tesla fan, wants to spend circa $140K on an EV, and she has to choose between the Mercedes EQS 580 and the Tesla Model X, which one would you say is the no-brainer (better value for money)? https://www.mbusa.com/en/vehicles/class/eqs/sedan https://www.mbusa.com/en/vehicles/class/eqs/sedan https://www.tesla.com/modelx https://www.tesla.com/modelx That is the future of Tesla. Increasing competition by better products offered by manufacturers with far more experience in manufacturing vehicles, and far superior dealership, service, and parts networks.

duped 4y ago
Average Jane doesn't have $140k to spend on a vehicle
JoshCole 4y ago
Current price on your link is ~$100k not $140k. It was much more confusing to use the first site, but click through I found something that was also about $100k when you chose the budget options. Meanwhile, for all numbers that both Tesla and Mercedes list publicly the Model X has better numbers. For example, in horsepower and 0-60 the Tesla does better. For some numbers, the Tesla lists the number - like range - but the Mercedes doesn't. Declaring my bias: I think this is because they are much worse in range. Now looking up the numbers: 340 mile range for Mercedes. 350 for the Tesla. I was wrong. Tesla was only better, not much better. Clicking through to order takes several clicks for Mercedes. Along the way of the happy path toward immediate purchase an interstitial pops up and warns me that the price will be changed if I try to order because they don't have the supplies to service the order. Tesla by contrast just lets me order the car with a delivery date in January of next year. To say your post is deeply misleading as to who is obviously the no-brainer in value for money is an understatement.
- JoshCole 4y ago
  Opened the Mercedes site again to check some more. Tesla allows escalation to ordering in two clicks. After more like seven clicks Mercedes was ready to let me 'save my build' rather than letting me order. They also still continually warn me: > Due to a worldwide shortage, semiconductor chips that are typically present in our vehicles are limited in supply. This has changed the availability of certain features. Vehicle pricing will vary and depends on the availability of certain features. Please verify with your dealer whether any feature is available in a particular vehicle. To learn more, please see your dealer. Whereas Tesla just lets me put in the order with delivery in January.
  - JoshCole 4y ago
    Lets move away from the ordering experience. My experience with Tesla service is that I notice an issue, then with my phone, I put in a service request. They come to my house while I'm sleeping and fix the issue. Super easy. Painless. By contrast car dealership salesmen and auto mechanics have an infamous reputation. I find Tesla to be superior. Maybe others won't, but personally - I find them extremely superior. Driving to a dealership sounds pretty lame to me. Especially if I'm having car trouble. Tends to be the kind of thing that makes driving to the dealership a bit annoying, you know?
JoshCole 4y ago
At both price points on the link the Tesla vehicle metrics are dominant over the Mercedes vehicle metrics. In fact, the $110k cost Tesla has better metrics than the $130k cost Mercedes: it is faster, accelerates faster, has higher horsepower, and has higher range. If the average Jane has $140k and wants the best value for money it is really hard to see why they would choose the objectively inferior car according to most metrics. They could save $30k and still have a better car. I really don't understand, at all, how you can conclude that it is a no brainier to get a Mercedes? It seems like a really ridiculous conclusion? Just clicking around on the site and trying to do the order shows you are wrong that Mercedes is far superior on non-car related things. The dealership model is famous for its failings. Car salesmen have a notorious reputation. The website for Tesla lets you put in a purchase order within three clicks, no interaction with a dealership. The Mercedes purchase workflow had more like seven clicks and it resulted in getting an interstitial telling me to talk to a dealer about how the car wasn't going to have all the features because of chip shortages, that the price would change as a consequence of that, and directed me to talk with a dealership. How is that better? How is not giving me the listed price but making me go through a high pressure sales channel superior to just letting me buy car the now? I don't understand at all how you can say that dealership model is far superior. Is it right in your eyes that someone poor at negotiating should have to pay more than someone who is better at it? I don't get it. I don't understand at all how you can think Mercedes is providing the better experience.
- marbletiles 4y ago
  “Range” is likely the only one of those metrics Jane will care about. This sounds like one of those rants we used to hear about “why would anyone buy a Mac when PCs have higher specs??” Mercedes does cabin UX like Apple does software (and BMW is better still). Maybe Jane wants a button for her wing mirrors. And door handles that work. Actually comfortable suspension. An instrument cluster. A dealer to look after her from decision to delivery.
  - JoshCole 4y ago
    I've opened Tesla's doors, enjoyed the suspension of the Tesla finding it comfortable, and when I adjusted my mirrors I used buttons on the steering wheel. Usually I don't have to adjust the mirrors, because the car can automatically detect that it is me who is driving and it has memorized my mirror preferences. Why are you lying? Why not focus on the metrics? For example... Storage space. The Tesla? It has four times the storage space. Eighty eight cubic feet to twenty two cubic feet. The person you are defending didn't bother to announce that they created a different comparative context and no wonder - even the Tesla Model 3 beats Benz across pertinent metrics like range and storage space despite costing $50,000-$80,000 less depending on configuration choices. Look, you can like Benz eight click and get told that you need to call the dealership and that the price listed isn't the actual price UX, but don't try and tell me that they are Apple. They aren't. Tesla lets you order in three clicks. Much cleaner. They also don't expect you to adjust your mirrors with buttons. Much much cleaner. Oh, and who was it who removed the buttons from phones again? o.O Need to correct my worldview apparently. Thought it was Apple, but according to you they are the pro-buttons companies. Please, help darkens us with your ignorance. We need to unlearn the truth lest we make a good decision and save $80k getting a better car than Mercedes can provide.
dreamcompiler 4y ago
It is indeed a no-brainer. The Tesla wins hands down. I've owned many very good German cars for the last 30 years and loved them, but my Model Y makes them all seem quaint and obsolete. --Electric cars don't need dealers. I want to be able to buy a car online without spending an hour kicking gravel and haggling with some commissioned salesperson over the price. --Electric cars don't need as much service as ICE cars, and it doesn't need to be done at a dealer's high-profit service bay. When my Tesla needed its rear seat coat hook replaced, a technician drove to my house and replaced it. For free. --Electric cars need very good batteries. Tesla has a 10-year, several-billion dollar lead over every other car manufacturer on battery technology. Everybody else is playing catch-up. Ditto for motors and single-piece castings. --Electric cars need very good UI software. The Germans make the second-worst automotive UI software of anybody (only the Japanese do an even worse job). Tesla's UI has elements I don't like, but every other car's software experience is so bad it's not even worthy of criticism. Mercedes, Porsche, and Audi are all offering electric cars with specs inferior to Tesla at much higher prices. This will be unsustainable after they stop coasting on their reputations and the supply of German car snobs who refuse to try a Tesla dries up. I'm sure the Germans will eventually catch up; Mercedes invented the ICE car after all. But Tesla invented the modern electric car and it's a whole different beast.
- hnov 4y ago
  It’s not snobbery, as a luxury car a Tesla is unimpressive. The styling and interior quality is comparable to a Mazda, not a Mercedes. I’m not a fan of the giant tablet for controls unless the car genuinely drives itself, even a generation old BMW’s iDrive 6 paired with carplay is preferable for me. They’re really different categories of product, IMO a Chevy Bolt is closer in spirit to a model 3 than a 3 series is.

by abzolv 4y ago

duped 4y ago

Average Jane doesn't have $140k to spend on a vehicle

JoshCole 4y ago

Current price on your link is ~$100k not $140k. It was much more confusing to use the first site, but click through I found something that was also about $100k when you chose the budget options. Meanwhile, for all numbers that both Tesla and Mercedes list publicly the Model X has better numbers. For example, in horsepower and 0-60 the Tesla does better. For some numbers, the Tesla lists the number - like range - but the Mercedes doesn't. Declaring my bias: I think this is because they are much worse in range. Now looking up the numbers: 340 mile range for Mercedes. 350 for the Tesla. I was wrong. Tesla was only better, not much better. Clicking through to order takes several clicks for Mercedes. Along the way of the happy path toward immediate purchase an interstitial pops up and warns me that the price will be changed if I try to order because they don't have the supplies to service the order. Tesla by contrast just lets me order the car with a delivery date in January of next year. To say your post is deeply misleading as to who is obviously the no-brainer in value for money is an understatement.

JoshCole 4y ago
Opened the Mercedes site again to check some more. Tesla allows escalation to ordering in two clicks. After more like seven clicks Mercedes was ready to let me 'save my build' rather than letting me order. They also still continually warn me: > Due to a worldwide shortage, semiconductor chips that are typically present in our vehicles are limited in supply. This has changed the availability of certain features. Vehicle pricing will vary and depends on the availability of certain features. Please verify with your dealer whether any feature is available in a particular vehicle. To learn more, please see your dealer. Whereas Tesla just lets me put in the order with delivery in January.
- JoshCole 4y ago
  Lets move away from the ordering experience. My experience with Tesla service is that I notice an issue, then with my phone, I put in a service request. They come to my house while I'm sleeping and fix the issue. Super easy. Painless. By contrast car dealership salesmen and auto mechanics have an infamous reputation. I find Tesla to be superior. Maybe others won't, but personally - I find them extremely superior. Driving to a dealership sounds pretty lame to me. Especially if I'm having car trouble. Tends to be the kind of thing that makes driving to the dealership a bit annoying, you know?

JoshCole 4y ago

At both price points on the link the Tesla vehicle metrics are dominant over the Mercedes vehicle metrics. In fact, the $110k cost Tesla has better metrics than the $130k cost Mercedes: it is faster, accelerates faster, has higher horsepower, and has higher range. If the average Jane has $140k and wants the best value for money it is really hard to see why they would choose the objectively inferior car according to most metrics. They could save $30k and still have a better car. I really don't understand, at all, how you can conclude that it is a no brainier to get a Mercedes? It seems like a really ridiculous conclusion? Just clicking around on the site and trying to do the order shows you are wrong that Mercedes is far superior on non-car related things. The dealership model is famous for its failings. Car salesmen have a notorious reputation. The website for Tesla lets you put in a purchase order within three clicks, no interaction with a dealership. The Mercedes purchase workflow had more like seven clicks and it resulted in getting an interstitial telling me to talk to a dealer about how the car wasn't going to have all the features because of chip shortages, that the price would change as a consequence of that, and directed me to talk with a dealership. How is that better? How is not giving me the listed price but making me go through a high pressure sales channel superior to just letting me buy car the now? I don't understand at all how you can say that dealership model is far superior. Is it right in your eyes that someone poor at negotiating should have to pay more than someone who is better at it? I don't get it. I don't understand at all how you can think Mercedes is providing the better experience.

marbletiles 4y ago
“Range” is likely the only one of those metrics Jane will care about. This sounds like one of those rants we used to hear about “why would anyone buy a Mac when PCs have higher specs??” Mercedes does cabin UX like Apple does software (and BMW is better still). Maybe Jane wants a button for her wing mirrors. And door handles that work. Actually comfortable suspension. An instrument cluster. A dealer to look after her from decision to delivery.
- JoshCole 4y ago
  I've opened Tesla's doors, enjoyed the suspension of the Tesla finding it comfortable, and when I adjusted my mirrors I used buttons on the steering wheel. Usually I don't have to adjust the mirrors, because the car can automatically detect that it is me who is driving and it has memorized my mirror preferences. Why are you lying? Why not focus on the metrics? For example... Storage space. The Tesla? It has four times the storage space. Eighty eight cubic feet to twenty two cubic feet. The person you are defending didn't bother to announce that they created a different comparative context and no wonder - even the Tesla Model 3 beats Benz across pertinent metrics like range and storage space despite costing $50,000-$80,000 less depending on configuration choices. Look, you can like Benz eight click and get told that you need to call the dealership and that the price listed isn't the actual price UX, but don't try and tell me that they are Apple. They aren't. Tesla lets you order in three clicks. Much cleaner. They also don't expect you to adjust your mirrors with buttons. Much much cleaner. Oh, and who was it who removed the buttons from phones again? o.O Need to correct my worldview apparently. Thought it was Apple, but according to you they are the pro-buttons companies. Please, help darkens us with your ignorance. We need to unlearn the truth lest we make a good decision and save $80k getting a better car than Mercedes can provide.

dreamcompiler 4y ago

It is indeed a no-brainer. The Tesla wins hands down. I've owned many very good German cars for the last 30 years and loved them, but my Model Y makes them all seem quaint and obsolete. --Electric cars don't need dealers. I want to be able to buy a car online without spending an hour kicking gravel and haggling with some commissioned salesperson over the price. --Electric cars don't need as much service as ICE cars, and it doesn't need to be done at a dealer's high-profit service bay. When my Tesla needed its rear seat coat hook replaced, a technician drove to my house and replaced it. For free. --Electric cars need very good batteries. Tesla has a 10-year, several-billion dollar lead over every other car manufacturer on battery technology. Everybody else is playing catch-up. Ditto for motors and single-piece castings. --Electric cars need very good UI software. The Germans make the second-worst automotive UI software of anybody (only the Japanese do an even worse job). Tesla's UI has elements I don't like, but every other car's software experience is so bad it's not even worthy of criticism. Mercedes, Porsche, and Audi are all offering electric cars with specs inferior to Tesla at much higher prices. This will be unsustainable after they stop coasting on their reputations and the supply of German car snobs who refuse to try a Tesla dries up. I'm sure the Germans will eventually catch up; Mercedes invented the ICE car after all. But Tesla invented the modern electric car and it's a whole different beast.

hnov 4y ago
It’s not snobbery, as a luxury car a Tesla is unimpressive. The styling and interior quality is comparable to a Mazda, not a Mercedes. I’m not a fan of the giant tablet for controls unless the car genuinely drives itself, even a generation old BMW’s iDrive 6 paired with carplay is preferable for me. They’re really different categories of product, IMO a Chevy Bolt is closer in spirit to a model 3 than a 3 series is.